to be pissed off at school for telling DD (5) about Baby Jesus?

[Kalemu]

We don't want religion anywhere near our house, one of the main reasons we chose to send our DD to state school instead of a CoFE school. Imagine my surprise when she came home with a Baby Jesus picture book and singing about the Baby King. This makes me very mad - it's not like we want to keep her in a bubble, but I wanted to have told her the different religion when she was a bit older.

Thinking of writing to the headteacher to let him know our thoughts, and to demand that we're informed next time they plan to talk about religious stuff in class. Do you think AIBU?

I think in today's multi cultural society, children need to be taught about religion in a non-biased way; which is where school comes in. Parents can't be expected to teach about religion because half the time they know little.

And I do think that not believing IS a belief.
Your belief is that all religions are rubbish, talking a load of crap. That is just an opinion. For all we know maybe Mary really was a virgin, maybe Jesus did rise from the dead, maybe Noah did take the animals on the arc 2 by 2. I doubt it myself but I'm just saying that your belief is that there isn't a god.

So what age is it acceptable to introduce children to the idea of religion and different beliefs?

As a Christian I agree that non-faith schools shouldn't teach any religion as the truth, and that all schools should teach about the beliefs of a wide range of faiths but even if that was the case to expect schools to not mention Jesus at christmas would be a big ask

extreme atheism is as ridiculous as extreme religion

Atheists don't kill other people for having views different to theirs.
Atheists don't insist other people believe in unfounded mythologies.
Atheists don't torture people for believing in the 'wrong' mythology.
Atheists don't threaten children with hell and damnation.

There is a limit to how 'extreme' an atheist can be, but there are no limits to religious extremity. I have absolutely no belief in supernatural beings: gods, fairies, ghosts, spirits or Father Christmas. That is the limit of where my atheism can go, isn't it? Atheism isn't a belief system, it's the opposite. Simply, I don't believe that shit. A religious zealot, by contrast, can believe in all manner of mystical authorities, laws and punishments.

... and I did promise myself I'd stay out of this

Does anybody else feel sorry for the OP's child? Going to be a long old 14 yeasr in education with her going off like a firecracker any time any sort of religious belief comes up..

Seriously Op - why not home school?

I'll admit that I know a little about most religions but not enough about any of them (even Christianity) to educate my children sufficiently about any of them. So I'm glad that schools do it otherwise I'd be forced to google every religion before each of my lessons

Garlic - I am a practicing Christian and I find your last post extremely offensive. 'Zealot' appears to you to mean anybody with faith. Could you clarify please as I'm sure you didn't mean to be so unpleasant.

Garlicbaubles -

I'm talking about the ideas behind it, now how people chose to act out their ideas.

An extreme atheist forces their ideas on those of religion, and like the OP expecting their children not to have any contact with religion whatsoever.

An extreme religionist forces their ideas of religion on those who do not believe.

Doesn't matter how they do it, it matters that its ridiculous to think that forcing your ideas in an extreme way is right.

I might sound hypocritical, because I am atheist, but I still take part in Christmas. I think it's gone far beyond just religion now and I see it as a festival for everyone; the one time of the year we're allowed to splurge, go a bit nuts and just be happy for no reason.

I too feel sorry for anyone not able to take part it this, whether it be for other religious reasons or extreme atheism.

Northern, I used zealot correctly. Strange that you applied it to yourself.

garlic, to be fair, I think we have to remember the Soviet Union and communist China.

But i think it's unfair to suggest that atheism is just another belief system to be judged like any other. Atheists are interested in scientific evidence whereas the whole point of faith is that you have to go beyond what the evidence suggests - otherwise it wouldn't be faith.

I don't really define myself as an Atheist. I don't have religion and I want my son to grow up without religion. There are plenty of people who just don't have religion, in fact I believe all babies are born without religion and then in some cases it is given to them by parents/teachers etc. That doesn't mean the rest of us should accept it as inevitable (Though it is - sigh).

Well, yeah, Ghost, it's clear that OP's on a losing bet from the start with that You can't eliminate popular mythologies from our cultures, neither can you pretend there are no religions!

I wouldn't want to eliminate the mythologies, either, I just don't expect them to be true. I'm spending Christmas with a pagan family this year - it's the same, but they call it Winterfest. Or Yule. I've forgotten Anyway, it looks exactly your Christmas only without the nativity.

The USSR and China were /are belief systems based on economics and politics. Still belief systems, unlike Atheism.

My children go to a CofE school (not that much choice here) and even then Christianity is tought as "Christians believe..." and they learn about other religions. The school doesn't expect everyone to be Christians, but ask that we support the Christian ethos of the school (which I interpret as 'love they neighbour as thyself' so am quite happy with that!) We do have a carol service in a church and the infants do a nativity. My children have never been made to beleive anything and the oldest makes no secret of not believing in God (although he does believe in Santa!)

I was christened in a CofE church. I went to a sunday school in a christian bretheran church. I and my husband are not religious,but we "do" Christmas . My children have always been encouraged to think for themselves. My youngest son told a visiting vicar at his infant school that he didn't believe in god, which caused a bit of a kerfuffle at the time. He considers himself atheist now (at age 12)! My oldest son is a definite non-believer. My middle daughter has been doing GCSE philosophy and ethics at school, and has been vaguely toying with christianity, but has now come out of that phase. She knows it aggravates me to talk about God, and I think she was just pushing her luck. She sees how religion can be the cause of too many arguments and problems in the world, but also that they are moral codes for people to aspire to.
I work in a primary school. We talk about the nativity as a story that christians believe is true, in the same way that the story of Rama and Sita is believed by Hindus etc,etc. When we have assembly, I do not bow my head and say the prayers, but I'll happily sing the hymns and songs, because I like singing!!

No you did not use it 'correctly. You used it in a lazy manner designed to suggest that all Faith is bad, all non-believers are good. Tis utter bollocks. You've equated religion - any religion - with utterly cruel and horrible behaviour. The implication of your post is that anybody who believes is a zealot and all zealots will .

I didn't apply that term to myself, you applied it to me because I am a person of faith. Well that really, really offends me.

Atheism is a belief only in the same way that thinking the sun will rise tomorrow, or that a dropped apple will fall downwards are beliefs. There is obviously the possibility that the sun won't rise, or the apple will fall upwards, but it's as near a certainly as it's possible that the sun will, and the apple won't.

That's how atheists think. There is obviously the possibility that there will be definitive proof of the existence of god found tomorrow, but it's as near a certainty as it's possible tonhave that there won't.

Communism in those countries DID insist people followed atheist beliefs though.

As a humanist I find bashing peoples faith deeply unpleasant and unnecessary - why do you need to reduce everyone's faith to the worst elements of each - acts not committed by people here?

Faith also brings people together and gives people comfort and solace - it's not universally wrong and I find militant atheism and disturbing as other forms of fundermentalism

garlicbaubles is clearly talking about religious extremism, and uses the word 'zealot' in that context.

Northern, you inferred. I did not imply. I was answering a post about 'religious extremists'. Zealot is an appropriate term, is it not?

Your assumptions are insulting.

Thank you, Somerset, and also for making the obvious point about communism :)

Even I think YABabitU, OP, and I am a really hardline atheist. However, I sympathise with your shock at finding out that there is no such thing as a secular school in the UK, it shocks a lot of people to discover that even in officially non-Christian schools, kids get fed a lot of Christian mythology, sometimes more than they should. (Loopy fundy teachers or TA insisting in non-church schools that Christian myths are 'true', which is inappropriate).

FWIW, treat it like it's just another story, like the Gruffalo/Cinderella/Whatever stories your DD likes and is familiar with. Because that is what it is - a story that some people take more seriously than others. We actually live in a culture that's based on a diversity of myths and traditions, many of which have been absorbed into Christian mythology, some of which are simply not thought about very much these days, and which is also adapting all the time. 'Christmas' is the current name for the midwinter festival, and it's no more a problem to call it that than it is to call the days of the week by their current names despite the fact that most people these days do not believe in Wodin, Freya, Thor or Saturn.

Atheism wasn't the driving force though, Gordy; but a by-product.

I'm not an Atheist, by the way. I'm Agnostic. Inclined to believe there is some sort of supernatural being, but having no time for organised religion.

but the driving force for many so called 'religious' atrocities has not actually been religion has it - it's been land grabbing or oil grabbing etc - religion is used as an excuse it's not the reason

it's lazy to accuse all religion of all the bad things and it's insulting to those religious people who opposed those things