For standing up against the social work and going this far ...

[BipedalSpecies]

First, I dont know if Mumsnet is the best forum for this, but it has the most appropriate user base I could find.

3.5 or so years ago I told the head of social work and education if they did not stop segregating and descriminating against my daughter I would see them in court.

2.5 years ago 2 social workers and a social care worker came to my door and threatened to remove my children if we did not comply with them.

Then they went to the police and the care worker made an anonymous complaint stating she saw my partner assualt our kids. Her timeline states my partner was positively identified by her description, woman with dark hair in a ponytail, by another worker six weeks before they even met her.

I had reports about me sent from the school regarding injuries on my daughter blamed on me. Interestingly enough in one case three members of staff saw my daughter injure herself in school, yet one member reported it to social work as abuse. You just cant make this up.

I covertly recorded social workers and made a complaint against them regarding them using false information in child protection meetings and giving the prosecution against us false information, backed up by my video.

I was branded a liar and our kids placed on the child protection register.

Court proceedings started. I submitted my video evidence. Court case was dropped.

The council refuse to watch the video. They also illegally accessed my medical records claiming I gave signed consent, which they cannot produce. (along with another 3 billion wrong pieces of information they cannot back up e.g. according to them and only them Im an ex drug addict and a current alcoholic)

Now the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman has recommended they watch the video by end of January.

The Information Commissioner's Office has asked them to explain themselves by mid January.

So my question is: Am I wrong to bury these people up to their necks by going to the media when all my investigations are finished?

BTW my case was closed to them over 1.5 years ago and Ive been fighting this 2.5 years, so Im not planning on taking any prisoners after so much effort.

Also the head of social work said 'nothing has gone fundamentally wrong' and the person in charge of the complaint circled the wagons and I am willing to publicly say, covered up for the workers. After all I told him where the evidence was and he refused to do anything except repeat the falsifications of the workers he was supposed to investigate. The request for a copy of the medical records authorisation in itself speaks volumes.

I also got told that I should drop my complaint because 'next time we will have the police with us and it wont be for a cup of tea and a chat'.

I don't dispute the assertions you've made in your final paragraph at all, Fellation.

All I'm asking is that you use your creative imagination to fill in some of what seems to you to be holes and glaring omissions or, if that's not possible, for you to suspend judgement until such time as you/we are in full possession of the facts - albeit the facts as we may be made privy to here or via the media may be not be as full as we would like.

Fellation ??? My sincere apologies, FellatiO.

Your child was attacking teachers and climbing over desks and you thought it wrong that she was removed from the classroom and threatened them with court? Do you not realise the school has a duty of care to other pupils and its staff and going in all guns blazing threatening court action is stupid and makes me picture you as a dog with a bone and a very short fuse!

A bit OT to your point, but can you actually legally release the video to the press? I thought taping people without their knowledge was illegal?

Because sometimes izzy it isn't actually helpful to wholeheartedly believe someone without question.

There are support threads, where people need support and that should be given unquestioningly.

But there are also threads where people appear to be justifying their entrenched position. And it is worth questioning them, getting them to think a bit, in case there is more to the story. In this case it may of course be as one-sided as the op is convinced it is. In which case, asking questions and discussing it will do no harm. But if there are valid reasons as to why SS got involved in the first place, and if the op's energy might be better spent looking at those reasons and also in supporting the children involved, wouldn't that be better than the op putting loads of effort into trying to convince strangers on the internet with half a story that all social workers are evil, for example?

This board would be very boring, and not much use to everyone, if every thread on every topic was met with the response "we believe every word you say op and the rest of the world are cunts".

I know an alcoholic, for example, who swears blind that drinking isn't a problem for her and it doesn't affect her kids. I know she posts on a website where she is getting a lot of sympathy about her "over-controlling" husband. Which really isn't helping her at all, or her children . And sadly Fellatio's last paragraph is very true.

If you have actual video evidence, then nobody in their right mind can argue with that. So yes, if you decide to take it to the press, it will be clear evidence that they lied.

It seems like this started because of your daughter's mental health problem? And she was hurting herself and telling them you did it? That's quite an extreme thing to do and no wonder they got involved. Of course they are going to form theories as to why a child might do that.

If they have taken that further and tried to make stuff up and fake evidence to support their theories and you can prove they did, how can anyone who sees that evidence argue with it?

I suppose you have to ask yourself what matters more. Having revenge on them - having the world know what they did...or putting it in the past and concentrating on your child. Who must have been in a hell of a state. What is in your child's best interests? To have all this made public or to have you focus on her mental health?

I understand. I do. I hate injustice and I am sure I would want to shout from the rooftops and show everyone my proof and have all those who had lied forced to admit it and to have everyone know them for what they are. To have the world know I was right.

But most of the world doesn't even know anything happened. You're not correcting their current belief. You're talking about giving them new information. Do they need that at the expense of making your daughter and her problems public?

How, if you choose to go public with this, will you protect your children? Because some people are vile.

Bullying at school. People whispering that there's no smoke without fire...

Will it make your lives better, do you think, to go to the press?

I mean, certainly, proceed through the complaints procedure if you feel you have to, make people who lied accountable, but think carefully about going to the press. Once you put it out there you can't take it back and you can't control how people act.

I'm sorry Izzy, I don't want to do battle with you, but I really do not understand your last paragraph. I thought I was suspending judgement? I asked the OP to clarify/expand on some of her points, in order that I might arrive at a more balanced opinion of whether she has been unfairly treated in all of this, or whether she is getting lathered up over what she believes to be a witch-hunt, while conveniently ignoring the obvious. I'm genuinely not sure how my 'creative imagination' can help - surely a creative imagination is the last thing you need when trying to judge a case like this? Aren't creative imaginations what lead us to jump to conclusions based on circumstantial evidence or gut feeling?

Anyway, I thought my posts to the the OP were firm but fair, and constructive, but I can understand why anyone who has had a very traumatic time with SS over completely unfounded allegations would immediately want to show solidarity with the OP, and be immediately critical of anyone questioning her version of events.

Whatever the rights and wrongs, I am very sure that this is not the proper place for this post. It will do the OP no good at if this comes to court.

What a fantastic post Hec.

I honestly have not read the whole thread, but isn't it illegal to video tape someone without their consent and therefore should have been thrown out of court?

You may be very sure, seeker, but fortunately others don't share your misguided and misplaced certainty otherwise this, and other, boards would be blank.

Anyone following your assertion through to its logical conclusion, will be labouring under the erroneous belief that anyone or any post on this, or any other internet site, could 'come to court' - including your own responses.

Maybe it would be prudent for you to have it deleted while you're in with a chance of getting off unremarked scot free?

I believe secret recording is not admissible in court, yes. I'm not sure about in every case, but certainly in some cases, and I believe this would be one of them. I think that wholly wrong, BTW, but I imagine it is the reason why, in the OP's case, the court refused to play to tape.

Although she did say that at some point she told them they were being recorded didn't she? Although if this was halfway through the proceedings then it would probably still be inadmissible.

As I read the OP, Hect, it has bugger all doesn't depend on video evidence,

That's in the bag - it's done and dusted and the Ombudsman has recommended that 'they' watch it by end January presumably so that 'they' can explain themselves comment before a determination/award is made.

FWIW, it's possible to draw injustices relating to mnors and majors to the attention of the general pubic without identifying specific individuals and exposing them to the type of finger pointing/ridicule that you appear to believe is inevitable.

Also FWIW, having the world know is the only way in which injustice can be seen for what it is. It's the only way in which similarly disaffected individuals can band together and find the support/courage to enable them to take on the establishment.

And where would we be if the 60's hadn't happened no-one had taken on the establishmet? We'd be under the yoke of Rome and communicating via beacons rather than snart phones, netbooks, tablets, etc.

Or are you proposing we should keep a discreet silence where injustice has been done to those who are over or under age?

Secret recordings are not normally usable but I do have knowledge of transcripts of those recordings being used.

Granted its primarily with regard to contact proceedings where domestic violence type abuse/threat has happened as a result of contact but been disputed,or the oppersit way round. And my experance is totally based on my clients.

But I was under the impression that if cameras are obvious,in your own home,and you are open about them then as long as they were not used for anything like filming people on the loo or dressing ect they were ok but I have no actual legal knowledge about this because I am not a legal person its just a idea.

Well I (almost) completely agree with you there, izzy ^except.....what if the OP will come out looking worse than she already does? If she really has been entirely innocent of any of the accusations levelled at her then she has everything to gain from pursuing this, but if not, then she may gain a moral victory of sorts, if best practice has not been adhered to by SS, but if details of her parenting and her past are dragged through the courts/media and it transpires that she is not the quite the blameless parent she might think she is, then what has been achieved, exactly? She is unlikely to garner much sympathy from the general public if she is all the things that SS accuse her of being, whether there has been a cover-up or not.

I think since Baby P, Victoria Climbe etc, I think that rightly or wrongly, the general public will have the attitude that if SS genuinely believes a child is at risk then get them out, by fair means or foul. Don't fanny around worrying about the rights and feelings of the parent, while there is even the slightest risk that that child may be in danger.

Unless the OP is squeaky clean I cannot see that going to the press will end well for her.

I would not, under any circumstances, allow my child to be the focus of a media report by choice.

By all means, pursue SS through the courts and take whatever official action you deem necessary.
Once you are in the public domain, you cannot control the exposure you and your child will receive.

Anyway these are things that interest me about what has been posted so far.

Was your child's placement mainstream?

Has your child been formally dx'd in the normal manor and by the NHS?

If this placement was wrong,did you take reasonable steps to personally locate a better one?

Has the ombudsman (or what ever its called) actually seen this video?

As above but the court?

Did your child actually go into 'care' of any description?

When the court stopped what was happening did ss try and continue?

Were any of your interactions with either the school or ss heated? Could you have without realising come across as unstable or aggressive ?

I ask the dx and school related questions because I personally have rather anti feelings about people using disability to explain away things that re not disability related and deciding there child has one with no medical intervention ect.

I am also rather about people who abdicated responsibility regarding there child's educational placement and expect and rely totally on the LA to do all the picking ect without also personally exploring the options themselves and then complaining that the school/LA hasn't got it right IMHO its down to you to find the best setting then the LA to make that happen with interaction from you.

Both of those things are things that would make me think that perhaps other aspects of your parenting did require intervention or looking into.

Actually I keep referring to the OP as 'she' but it may be a man. Certainly the OP's partner is female. Not that it matters.

But I totally stand by my previous thought that if your completely correct you have a moral and civil duty to make them accountable.

But the media will not do this,

I also disagree that family courts should be open or subject to media attention

I am not going to comment on the substance of the case, but if you do decide to go to the press, OP, I would advise you to dial the dramatic, confrontational tone right down because it could bite you on the arse in ways you cannot forsee. The person who called you "bonkers" was not being particularly sensitive but I can see how somebody could paint you like that if it suited them. You have basically admitted this would be about revenge, pure and simple, which is not a great start as a sympathy figure, is it.

A tone which is so dramatic (eg. repeated use of "What if I told you...?" construction) and confrontational (eg. "When I go public with this and put my money where mouth is, will you do one thing, just one thing? will you come back here and publicly apologise to me...?") can generally proceed from two places:

1. someone who is at their wits' end with the shocking injustices perpetrated against them, who is understandably mired in the detail of who said what and to whom

or

2. someone who is naturally dramatic, confrontational and defensive, and inclined to immediately escalate any challenges.

Just be very sure you fall into category 1 and in any dealings with the press remain calm, clear and factual.

I almost feel tempted to say how can the OP emerge looking worse than she's been painted in this small rock pool, Fellatio?

Look at the 'colours' you've used... every shade and hue except whiter than white. Why is that? Has it not occurred to you that the OP may be actually be blameless? Or do you believe that SS (think Sharon Shoesmith) always gets it right?

I wouldn't go to the press if I were you, why invite that intrusion into your life? There really will be people who will be sceptical, maybe not overtly but the moment you invite people to comment on your life they will feel free to do so.

The second problem you have is that the social workers can't comment - all they have to say is that there were numerous concerns/investigations and it can look bad for you. Their silence does not help you.

And lastly - unless you squeak with Vosene for cleanliness then don't take them on. If you have alcohol or drug issues, even in your far past, people will judge you as unfit or raise questions.

Think very carefully.

Unless the OP is squeaky clean I cannot see that going to the press will end well for her

OFGS. Let's scratch a few social workers, teachers, police officers, politicians, and see how many of them are 'squeaky clean'.

Why do you believe that the Family Courts should be a cross between a work by Kafa and Catch 22 closed, Pixie?

Do you not believe that proceedings which impact on lives in a more profound manner than that of the justice which is meted out by other Courts should be subject to fair comment the light of day?