to be shocked that less than half of people in London are white

[Ilovecoffeeandchocolate]

I was reading the article below and was shocked to see how much this country especially London has changed over the last ten years and feel concerned that immigration is too high for what is an already overcrowded island especially in the south east!

www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/dec/11/census-2011-religion-race-education?intcmp=239

"According to the Campaign for Rural England much of SE england is more densely populated than pretty well anywhere else in Europe. Even Belgium. Fact. And it patently is an issue."

I wasn't talking about anywhere in Europe, so your comparison is pretty irrelevant. I have lived in densely populated parts of SE England, and I have lived in even more densely populated areas overseas. I have seen no evidence to suggest overcrowding in either location, and I would suggest that your argument is being driven by another agenda entirely.

There is so much ignorance on this thread. It makes me so relieved to know that my neighbours are intelligent, well-informed and tolerant, regardless of their ethnic background/country of origin.

Having struggled on the tube for about a decade, may I politely snort in derision at any suggestion that London is not massively overcrowded.

'In London in 2011, 45% (3.7 million) out of 8.2 million usual residents were White British'

This statement from the article tells you nothing about immigration, necessarily. It tells you about 'usual residents' of London, many of whom will be foreign students, temporary workers, and medium-term residents etc, who will return to their country of origin or move on to another country at some point.

London is the world's capital city, as New York was in the 80s and early 90s and somewhere else (probably Shanghai) will be in due course. People are being rather unreasonable to take all the benefits to the UK's economy/international standing etc of that while issuing coded and not so coded complaints about all the foreigners cluttering up the place.

They aren't all a burden by any means. Some of the foreign people of colour are educated and rich. Many of them keep the NHS going.

And bear in mind that a lot of migration is from EU citizens with an absolute right to freedom of movement within the EU. Not all EU migrants are white, by a long chalk. I know quite a few French migrants of North African ethnicity who've come here because it offers them far more opportunities than at home.

Of course, we have the same right, and I have never noticed a thread on Mumsnet suggesting all the British expats moving to Spain, Cyprus, Greece, Bulgaria or wherever to build new lives (generally without learning the language or about the host culture) were a blight on the countries they moved to.

By all means discuss immigration and whether there needs to be a limit and where but remember to take the rough with the smooth.

And I might equally snort in derision at the suggestion that London is crowded only because of immigration. Immigrants tend to go where the jobs are. I would not dispute that a less centralised economy would have many benefits. However, that's a separate argument entirely.

Most major cities are crowded. Personally, I have seen much worse than London.

'and I would suggest that your argument is being driven by another agenda entirely.

There is so much ignorance on this thread. It makes me so relieved to know that my neighbours are intelligent, well-informed and tolerant, regardless of their ethnic background/country of origin.'

jinsei I am in fact an immigrant's daughter. With a brother who migrated to another country. My argument is being led solely by the desire to preserve the scare commodity of countryside: the field outside my house, the village that has a poor water supply and no school places. And one bus a day to the town.

I could not give a fig who my neighbours are, in racial terms. My daughter's best friend is African, and if you had read further up the thread you would have seen me point to some excellent Indian doctors who have really helped some close family members.

I very much resent your implication that I am a racist and if you repeat it I will report your post to MN. Sorry to be heavy-handed but it is ridiculous that we cannot have a discussion without that accusation being bandied about.

My neice lives in London and she is really white!

'In London in 2011, 45% (3.7 million) out of 8.2 million usual residents were White British'

Let's also note that the category White British will exclude someone born in this country with one white European or American parent, as they will tick the White Mixed or White Other box.

I have never suggested London is overcrowded because of immigration. Lomdon is overcrowded full stop. Thus it makes sense to be able to plan carefully for the needs of people living there. This is difficult to do when large numbers of people come to live in a city and clear records are not kept. It is even more difficult when large numbers of the people who arrive cannot speak English. Almost all of my asylum cases required interpreters and about 30% of my family cases. Almost all of those involve people who have lived here for years.

And I also think large communities of English speakers in other countries who make no attempt to integrate, speak the language etc are equally worthy of criticism. It does nothing but cause resentment as far as I can see.

I live in London but I'm OK by you, I'm white. Very very very white. I look Celtic.

Oooh but but but, OP, I am in deep white cover because my mum is a Wicked Forriner with a brown skin, who moved here from India (to go to Oxford) in the 1950s.

We're everywhere. Just as you think you've got a naice white person to sympathise with about these Wicked Forriners, we emerge...Be afraid. Be very, very afraid.

Really afraid. Please. Go on.

Good point cory. I am in that category.

That the capacity of the Tube is insufficient at peak times, in many parts of London, is true.

That is not evidence of the ills of immigration though.

It's all the bladdy tourists. Wandering around stopping at the tops of escalators and taking the tube from Covent Garden to Leicester Square etc.

most BNP types are fine with white immigrants. It's dark skinned immigrants they've an inexplicable disgusting dislike of

Have you read the thread, mother inferior? Op is mixed race.

And my point still stands that a naice white person can be mixed race too.

dinky they are allowed to use the state schools and state healthcare actually, but most choose not to, as their Expat packages cover education and private healthcare.

But yes, we are here as guests for as long as it suits our sponsors and we have no right to remain, no chance of ever converting to full citizenship, or any recourse to public funds in the way of benefits.

And we ALL are only here by invitation, to do a specific job. No job, no sponsorship, no visa. No exceptions.

My next door neighbour once told me he wished all immigrants would go back home. I said that was an odd ting to say to...an immigrant. He said :" you are alright Chandon, I know you. it is the other foreigners I mind about."

Chandon I used to get that all the time, people would genuinely forget! Or they would say oh not your kindsays it all (I am white and a native English speaker)

cory I am amoral too I guess

"I used to live in an area of London I would say was 90% non white. Even in the four years I lived there there was a massive influx of people mostly from African countries such as Nigeria. It caused a lot of problems particularly in the NHS. There just weren't the resources in the area to cope with demand. At the GPs you had to queue from 7.30am to get an appointment even then you were lucky. The midwives and health visitors were stretched to breaking point as well. I believe the local schools were not coping well either and didn't have th extra support in place for a lot of children whose first language wasn't English."

sweetkitty, for your information, English is the first language for many many Nigerians. Also for people to continue living here, UK border agency makes them prove that they can speak and understand the English language to an intermediate level. So please get your facts right before posting.

jjuice occasionally popping up on controversial threads or starting obviously trolly posts and qualifying with I can say that because I am black then disappearing off them does not mean that the the OP is NOT a troll.

Please genuinely, all of you crying and wringing your hands at the lost country side... what do you really want to happen? The UK is an island but you are also a citizen of EARTH. Earth and it's resources are being over run by the 7 billion inhabitants. These people need homes. Where do you propose they go? Where can they live while there children are being abused in war torn countries? When they can't feed or give clean water to their children? Where should they go so as to preserve the very paleness of Norfolk? The lovely rolling hills of the British country side?

There are many people in the UK who arrived clandestinely, of whom UKBA are unaware. They are not subject to English language testing.

I like that Willy Wonka meme ''Oh, so you're afraid of whites becoming a minority. Why? Are minorities treated like second class citizens or something?''

That says it all really.

memegenerator.net/instance/26642605

^ the meme itself

I like that SLTS!

I'll tell you exactly what I want to happen.

--No more houses in rural areas built until all unused housing stock is inhabited.
--No more houses built in fields until brownfield sites used

I'm baffled if I can see how this is making some kind of racist assertion. Given my background, I am doubly baffled.

And I am triply baffled by the idea of the 'rolling hills' of Norfolk.

Well, London wasn't wonderful for me because I couldn't afford more than a two bed flat in an area where my car was smashed into twice in one week, where there were crack dealers at my gate - although they were always very polite and probably kept the teenage gangsters at bay as after the police chased them all over Windrush Square the numbers of teenage boys on bikes with guns went up quite a lot.

It wasn't wonderful to spend up to two hours a day crushed into a tube carriage or wait at Victoria for hours every time the tube went down.

I think London is great. I would move back instantly if I won Euromillions andcould afford a house. But there are lots of reasons it wasn't wonderful, especially if you don't have much money.