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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to want my employees to work in the run up to christmas?

106 replies

popgoestheweezel · 10/12/2012 21:17

Myself & dh own a gift shop and website. We have 2 full time members of staff, 5 part timers (2 of those have other part time jobs) and 2 college students. They have their set hours year round, which we are extremely flexible about, but they are expected to work more hours in this very busy but short period.
However, this year, for the first time (and we have been doing this for 15 years) I am faced with several days where not enough people have agreed to work and we will be short staffed. I have informed them that we don't have enough people and asked them to help us out but there are lots of excuses and some downright refusals.
dh and I each work upwards of 60 hours a week throughout oct nov and dec and although we have two children (6&8) we know that this is par for the course in retail and it's fine except when you come to pay the wages every month and think to yourself 'why are we paying all these staff (generously, for the industry and level of skill) yet they refuse to work when they are genuinely required and we have to do all the worst shifts ourselves?'

OP posts:
OneHandFlapping · 10/12/2012 21:19

Look for a uni student to fill in? the first ones are trickling back now, and if you advertised somewhere I'm sure your hand would be bitten off (and not just by uni students either).

EuphemiaInExcelsis · 10/12/2012 21:20

Sack them and get people in who'll pull their weight?

dishwashervodkaanddietirnbru · 10/12/2012 21:20

If they arent contracted to work those hours then you are relying on their goodwill to do it and they are under no obligation to do extra for you. Could you take on temporary staff over the christmas period?

Sirzy · 10/12/2012 21:20

I can understand its frustrating for you but if they are working their contracted hours then any overtime is if it fits in with them not just because you say they have to.

dishwashervodkaanddietirnbru · 10/12/2012 21:21

you cant sack them for not doing hours that they arent contracted to do

nightowlmostly · 10/12/2012 21:22

Sorry but YABU if their contracts are for a small amount of hours. It's not really fair for you to only give them x amount of hours all year round then expect them to do more just because it suits you. You own the business, it's par for the course that you will have to work harder at certain times of year.

If it was me with a 16 hour contract for eg, then at Xmas if it didn't suit me to work more then I would refuse and feel perfectly entitled to do so.

MaryMotherOfCheeses · 10/12/2012 21:22

You might need to take on additional staff for Christmas. Other shops do.

DontmindifIdo · 10/12/2012 21:23

Can you let them 'earn' time off?

I'd also start asking students to work - perhaps ask the 2 students if they have any friends looking for some extra work over Christmas.

HollyBerryBush · 10/12/2012 21:23

And we live in a climate where people cant get jobs? oh sack the lazy feckers and get people in who want to work, know what team spirit is, and know how to pull their weight.

Annunziata · 10/12/2012 21:23

Unless they're contracted you don't have a foot to stand on. It's so frustrating I know. I've worked every single Christmas Eve and Boxing for the past 20 years except one. I'll probably do every single Christmas Eve and Boxing Day for the rest of my working life, for me it's part and parcel of owning the shop.

takataka · 10/12/2012 21:23

surely you pay them for the hours they do??

or do you pay them another fee for going the extra mile? is that the payment you feel resentful of?

hermioneweasley · 10/12/2012 21:24

What do their contracts say about overtime?

(I would be pissed off too BTW)

StuntGirl · 10/12/2012 21:25

Could you take on a temp? You obviously have the hours. And perhaps don't go out of your way to be flexible yourself at other times if the year; while they absolutely don't have to do over time if its not contracted equally you don't have to be flexible yourself.

takataka · 10/12/2012 21:26

oh i'd be pissed off if i had a crappy fill-in job in a shop and the owners were expecting me to work extra shifts which weren't convenient, to cover their arses

caramelwaffle · 10/12/2012 21:26

Are you offering them overtime pay, or expecting them to do it for no extra payment? (unclear)

ZZZenAgain · 10/12/2012 21:27

if you are, as you say, generally "extremely flexible" about the hours your staff work and there is supposed to be a bit of give and take in this arrangement in that they will need to work more hours at this time of the year and in the past 15 years, this situation has never come up before, I can definitely understand that you are upset and feeling let-down. I suppose it feels disloyal and a bit as though it is a one way thing. Also you are very stressed atm no doubt.

Under the circumstances though, if you cannot oblige them to work more hours and they are not prepared to do so, even refuse to do so, you will have to try and rope in extra staff for the Christmas season, get them trained and sort out the logistics of that. I think you are so busy, you just have to get on and do that for now and think it all through in the new year, when you have more leisure.

DontmindifIdo · 10/12/2012 21:29

Remember as well, this is your business, this is your lives, you have built this up and it matters to you, but these people it's just a job, for 4 of them this isn't even their only occupation, this is just a bit of extra money for them, not something that particularly matters or they care about.

You can't expect your staff to care in the same way you do, you are emotionally invested - it's unreasonable to expect your employees to be in the same way.

hermioneweasley · 10/12/2012 21:29

I would be tempted to take on extra staff to cover the shortfall at Christmas, and then decide who are the better employees, making the surplus redundant.

mrscrimbobash · 10/12/2012 21:29

Worked in a similar industry and had the same issue.

I was so livid with my staff because they knew that we relied on Xmas trade in order to continue throughout the year- they'd worked for us for years and knew that they'd be compensated generously for their hard work.

(FYI: It wasn't overtime beyond the realms of normalcy....) One year they (friends) refused to help with overtime, not realising that if they didn't put the work in then there wouldn't be a business to pay their wages.

No Xmas bonus that year and they both left soon after. Have great, enthusiastic staff now who know that if we do well it's not just all in my pocket- it's theirs too!

bureni · 10/12/2012 21:30

Op, you havent exactly given your staff a lot of notice and you need to remember that they most likely have already made plans for the Christmas period. Perhaps a financial incentive might help but if they are under contract to work a certain number of hours they are not obliged to work the extra hours though given the current financial situation of the country in general a lot of people would be grateful for the extra hours especially at this time of the year.

MaryMotherOfCheeses · 10/12/2012 21:30

"And we live in a climate where people cant get jobs? oh sack the lazy feckers and get people in who want to work, know what team spirit is, and know how to pull their weight."

This is why employment law is a good thing.

SolomanDaisy · 10/12/2012 21:30

I am amazed anyone can work in retail and not expect to do extra hours at this time of year. YANBU!

nancy75 · 10/12/2012 21:30

Make it clear that next year you will be hiring a Xmas temp and if they want extra hours/money for Christmas it won't be available. Others are right they don't have to work extra, but when you work in retail is is generally expected that you will over busy periods.
If the people working for you are not willing to pull their weight over Christmas I don't think I would be too flexible to help them out at other times of year. Working to contracted hours only works both ways.

OnTheBottomWithAStringOfTinsel · 10/12/2012 21:31

I think that as you own the business and you benefit from the profits & they are just employees, you will never get the same amt of committment from an employee.

So although it may feel unfair that you do 60 hour weeks, you can't really use this as an argument.

However if you are genuinely paying them generously for the industry, and asking, rather than telling, them when extra work is needed, you are treating them quite well. After all in the current climate who can afford to turn down extra work? Not many I would think.

Perhaps you could take on a temp or two for Christmas, get them to do the awkward shifts, and not give the others extra work. If they query this you can say "I need XY and Z shifts covered, and as you have all refused, I have had to look elsewhere". This may result in a flurry of extra effort from your long term employees (but could cause conflict). However although change can be difficult, imagine if you got an ideal employee through the temping, and one of your poorer performers decided to leave? You could end up with a nice pool of temps to pick from for extra busy times too.

Or, you could do a set rota (ensuring there is sufficient cover for the days you need extra people) and inform them that if they can't do the rota'ed shift, they need to agree a swap with someone else (this may not work if you have to put them in for more hours than set out in their contracts).

I do think they are being a bit cheeky - after all, I'm sure they are spending more at Christmas than any other time of the year, so it seems they are looking for the extra hours for exactly when suits them, rather than when it suits the business.

Iggly · 10/12/2012 21:32

What kind of downright refusals? Maybe they genuinely cannot - what do you expect them to do?

I'm wondering why they won't do it. What kind of employer are you? I myself would work extra (and do) for mine but that's because a lot of goodwill has been built up. I can see why a demotivated employee wouldn't do it.