to want my employees to work in the run up to christmas?

[popgoestheweezel]

Myself & dh own a gift shop and website. We have 2 full time members of staff, 5 part timers (2 of those have other part time jobs) and 2 college students. They have their set hours year round, which we are extremely flexible about, but they are expected to work more hours in this very busy but short period.
However, this year, for the first time (and we have been doing this for 15 years) I am faced with several days where not enough people have agreed to work and we will be short staffed. I have informed them that we don't have enough people and asked them to help us out but there are lots of excuses and some downright refusals.
dh and I each work upwards of 60 hours a week throughout oct nov and dec and although we have two children (6&8) we know that this is par for the course in retail and it's fine except when you come to pay the wages every month and think to yourself 'why are we paying all these staff (generously, for the industry and level of skill) yet they refuse to work when they are genuinely required and we have to do all the worst shifts ourselves?'

When you employ people in the future and set new hours - so state you expect them to work more hours over christmas etc...

you state they are "expected" to work more hours round christmas not "contracted"

You can't do too much with your current workers except if they won't be flexible when you need to and they want to work according to their contracts you need to do the same to them - those that want flexbility over employment may well leave so you can hire new people on new terms.

Most self employed people do resent paying others and want others to pull their weight over and above what they are contracted to do - you need to ask what incentive do they have to do so, you see the rewards, I bet you won't be offering them shares in the company.

to be fair, have those people got other commitments in their lives which make it impossible for them to do extra hours?

IME it's not the amount of hours that are the problem at Christmas but rather when you're asking them to do extra.

YABU.
If they don't want to work more than their contracted hours, then that's up to them.
I'd get some xmas temps in.

"and then decide who are the better employees, making the surplus redundant. "

i think it's illegal to make someone redundant if their job is still available for someone else to take it over.

X posted with lots of people!

However, if you get a good temp in, you can't make one of the others redundant and then make the temp permanent - redundancy is where the position is gone and there is no need to fill it. You can, however, take a temp on and give them the extra hours that are not in the normal person's contract.

I think your title is misleading.

Your employees are working. They are not refusing to do the work they are contracted for. They are doing the hours that you and they agreed for the salary agreed.

You are being very unreasonable to begrudge them that!

I'm with you OP, on this.

I have ad hoc staff, who I know (like I was) women wanting to get back into the workplace and need an opportunity to fill in their CV. All I ask is notice and I'll give a brilliant reference, two of them stitched me up at the last minute today - I have no way of finding new CRB checked staff over night.

Irritated doesnt come into it. I shall go back to employing retired people

Santa you are right - you said it better than me!

Yabu for starting an OP "Myself and DH" when "DH and I" would have been kinder to my eyes.

I will add you cannot expect your employees to have the same commitment that you do without giving them proper incentives.

What about moving employees to annualised hours? That way they get a regular wage but you can have more hours in the run up to Christmas. We used to do this with a busy summer season when running a hotel.

it is a bad time of the year to have to retrain new staff when you are much busier than usual too. Hope you can sort something out for now and do some reviews in the new year, I would bring this up then.

I can see this from both sides and perhaps there are two sides to this.

Is there an incentive to work extra hours at Christmas? Do they get offered TOIL or extra pay for the extra hours? I would prefer TOIL when the business is slack but others may not.

Do the two part timers with other jobs get time off from the other jobs to be able to do extra hours for you?

The reason you need more staff at Christmas is because everyone gets busier, that is likely to include the people that work for you. Think about why they can't do the extra hours? Is it because they don't have childcare or because they have other commitments? I wouldn't assume they are crap staff just because they said no.

I was thinking the same as Iggly. If your staff had not foreseen the seasonal rush and expected to be working longer hours, there's something wrong with the way you involve them in the business. A motivated team would have already asked you what hours you were looking at, and probably have discussed shifts amongst themselves to make planning easier.

I'm not sure your management is as inclusive as you like to think - not meaning to be overly critical, as it's very easy to get bogged down in your own business and take staff for granted - but there might still be time to rustle up some enthusiasm for this year, and maybe put a bit more effort into it through 2013.

Hope you all have a great, and profitable, Christmas!

YANBU to expect them to work their contracted set shifts

YABU to expect that they work overtime.

Is overtime not optional?

I had it written in my contract at one job that over time was expected to the rate of up to 8 hours per week for at least one in four weeks of the month.

Annoying, but YABU to expect it. If you need flexibility/extra hours you need to get that requirement drafted into the contracts you are using.

Hmm, cash/extra time off later enhancement?

I understand your dilemma, you need support and loyalty, but you know, it's give and take.

Yeah, I've worked in retail and it's annoying when you're kept on short hour contracts for flexibility but that flexibility is all expected to be one way (towards your boss so they only give you x hours but expect you to work extra whenever they want). Unfortunately for you it works both ways and they can refuse right back when they want flexibility for themselves over the Christmas period.

And what to you is an excuse is often a valid reason, people have children, parents to look after, have made commitments or bookings which they have paid and can't drop. If someone is contracted to work elsewhere or has no childcare it's not an excuse, they just can't do it.

It is difficult but there is sadly no obligation on employees to do beyond their contracted hours. I can see why you are frustrated if you treat your staff well and they are full of excuses as to why they cannot work the extra hours. But it's no good saying we work all hours and the staff don't. It's your business.

YANBU

I think we must be pretty good to work for as our staff retention rate is very, very high. We have been in business for 15yrs and one has been working all this time, another 11 yrs, all the rest, except 2 (newcomers, taken on to ease the christmas rush but who will continue in the new year), at least 5 yrs. The few staff who have moved on (to alternative careers) are still good friends of ours.
We have always been committed to retaining staff year round despite them being superfluous at some points in the year because we feel that's the 'right thing' to do.
Very recently one asked if they could leave two hours early to go to a concert and I agreed readily and said I hoped they'd have a good time. That is how we do things, but I feel like now I have been too flexible and actually they are in the habit of work fitting around every other thing in their lives.
As far as other commitments go, it is in fact the one with the youngest children and the partner working shifts that is the happiest to do more. Those with either children at school or no children at all seem to have many more immovable commitments. The two new members of staff were taken on with the specific and clear expectation that they would be expected to do more in dec. One of them told us at interview how the gps were incredibly supportive and would collect her dd from school anytime. Now she has the job she tells us they will not agree to do anymore to help her and she also refuses shifts which are school hours only- I feel a little duped as it was discussed at interview and now she backtracks.
They are not contracted to do extra hours but it has been the way we have operated happily with the other staff for the last 15 yrs, they have agreed verbally and they have been on the rota (we invite them to tell us days they have immovable commitments on before this is drawn up) they have been given a copy of this, then the day before they tell me 'no, i didn't want to work then because I have a hair appt/am going shopping with a friend/need to babysit my niece' or similar.
I am quite happy to accomodate their request if we can get other cover, but we can't!

They may just not be able to take on the extra hours...you say two of the part timers have other jobs....should they cut down the hours on those to suit you ? They may fit childcare around the job (or work school hours) and it may not be possible to work extra.

You should take on extra staff really