...to think that my (childless) therapist can't understand my PND as well as someone with kids would?

[MamaLazarou]

Sorry - very clumsily put, but I can't think of another way to say it.

I'm 6 weeks in to a course of psychotherapy for prolonged Post-Natal Depression and have discovered that my therapist has never had kids.

I had felt that she lacks empathy with the trauma and relentlessness of childbirth and early parenthood. When I told her that we had had no visitors or support of any kind in the first months of my son's life, she told me that most people experienced the same and that she didn't know anyone who had been looked after in any way by friends or family when they had newborns.

This is just one of many causes of my (possibly clinical) depression but I find it frustrating that she has an (IMO) unrealistic impression of what life with a newborn is like.

She is in all other ways a very good therapist and I do realise that it's a bit late to change now.

I was thinking of discussing it in our next session. AIBU?

OP I'm getting the impression that you otherwise like this counsellor? I think you should definitely talk to her about how you felt when she made this comment and explore it with her. Tell her you felt she wasn't being empathic towards you.

Sometimes in counselling the client can have feelings towards the counsellor that in fact are feelings they have about someone/something else, if that makes sense? It's called transference. I had some counselling a while ago and the woman really annoyed the hell out of me every session - in hindsight I was angry with the situation I was in and refusing to see that I could respond differently - she was absolutely right!

I'm training to be a counsellor and while I do think it's really helpful to have some life experience under your belt, honestly I'm not intending to try and experience the full range of issues potential future clients might have! But if you don't manage to resolve this with her then you are definitely within your rights to ask for a referral to see someone else.

As an aside, there are definitely have options to take meds while both pg and bfing. I've done it.

Perhaps what she said was true in her experience, though, and the women that she tends to see are the ones who have very little support in the early days. Maybe that's why then have bad pnd and need to see a therapist. I sympathise with that as I didn't have any help and it was c*.

Not sure how relevant her childlessness is as everyone's experience is individual to them.

Can't comment on her competency as a therapist, either, as don't know quite what she should be doing.

That's sad, lost. A good therapist should have been able to relax you over that stage, I think. The best one I ever had was great at that, and actually did a couple of the things they're not supposed to do - she'd giggle quite spontaneously if I made a black joke, and occasionally share something about her own experiences in a limited way. She was a great listener in the sense that she'd sometimes get animated about what I said, rather than just nod and smile mysteriously. And it made me feel like she didn't actually mind talking to me, and I was capable of coming across well to another non-related human being, which was a massive booster.

Of course, you're paying them! But I still know what you mean, I have "apologeticitis" about that stuff too.

thanks madsleighlady - we really just didn't click, once I used the f-word and when she asked me to expand on the point she was unable to use it back to me, even in quotes. She thought about it but obviously couldn't bring herself to do it. this made me feel terrible as I imagined her seeing me as the HORRIBLE WHINY SELF CENTRED -AND SWEARY! - LADY (As well as everything else)

MamaLazarou, good luck, I hope things get better for you soon. x

To be a therapist you need to understand what effect events can have, and how you go about treating them. I have treated alcoholics and allsorts, but fortunately, I haven't had to experience all that!

TBH I sometimes wonder if someone who's never had debilitating depression can actually understand what it entails. I'm having CBT for PTSD at the moment and my counsellor is extremely preoccupied with my current, relativelt mild, depression. She keeps confidently giving me advice about it, all of which has been utterly vapid and pointless (along the lines of go for a walk/ have a coffee with a friend/ look on the bright side).
Maybe I have less respect for her than I otherwise would because when she asked me about the nature of the original trauma and I told her I'd been raped, her first question was "Had you been drinking?"

Hopkinette, she sounds awful. I think it's probably better for you to stop seeing her, she is likely to do more damage than good.

If you don't like your therapist, you may consider moving. It's a two way street and if you feel that you aren't on the same wavelength, then vote with your feet. There is no point flogging a dead horse!

Cailin, I've been waiting since October last year for trauma focussed CBT and I feel like if I turn my nose up at this practitioner, who knows how long I'll have to wait to be reassigned? I'm feeling pretty desperate to be honest. I do think I understand how the OP feels, having to try and explain something very specific to someone who (despite all their training) very obviously does not have a fucking clue.

That's terrible hopkinette, but I wonder if carrying on with her will do you any good? Do you feel it's helping, in spite of her shortcomings?

I would always advise people demand to see someone who specialises in the specific area of treatment. There are certain areas I won't touch with a barge pole - either because of the potential for dishonesty/violence or because its an area that is of no interest (weight management) or something that may be very tricky and need years of treatment.

I don't know, really - it is definitely making me think, but the conclusion of the thinking seems to be that I am infinitely more fucked up than I thought I was, and that rape is probably the least of my worries. Starting therapy has also coincided with some other fairly major life changes so it's hard to say where any improvement/deterioration is actually coming from, if you see what I mean.

Is it psychoanalysis or therapy? Rather than counselling or CBT? Because there have been some studies which have shown very little difference in outcomes between a 'sympathetic listener' and a trained psychoanalyst. You are the consumer. Try to research what field your therapist is in, what evidence base there is and whether you would be better with another form of therapy.

Whether your therapist has children or not wouldn't make a difference to a lot of therapy, since the situation of the therapist wouldn't be mentioned at all. However, your therapist might just be bad. Or a Freudian, even worse. Liking your therapist isn't the important thing. In fact some people get great results from therapists they hate, because that can be the nature of the beast. Outcome for you should be the main goal.

Good luck.

Hmm hopkinette, I'm not sure realising you're more fucked up than you thought is a good outcome! I know myself that having bad therapy can be really damaging - a terrible counsellor really set me back years ago, and some of the things she said still haunt me today. She was basically a total idiot but in my mind my sessions with her were quite traumatic as I was really hoping they would help and instead she made me feel totally shit about myself, and she made me blame myself for abuse I suffered.

Just be wary, I suppose.

Yes, some therapists are plain old twats with terrible personal skills. I've met shone in my time! Terrible diagnosis, clueless treatment protocol... The client needs to feel secure, confident and happy with their therapist. Sometimes there is a professional barrier that needs to clamp down (if a client is threatening for some reason or at risk of becoming dependent) but a good therapist will manage the client and at the very least have them leaving the room feeling better than they did when they came it the room.

some cdt practitioners are awful and all that "look on the bright side" bollocks is sadly an example of WHERE CBT GOES WRONG. cheap, nasty and stupid when done wrong, or on the wrong people - people who have been trying to sweep their feelings under the carpet for years because they do not feel worthy of them just hear "Pull yourself together" and feel a million times worse.
However I got a book by David Burns which is cbt self help and although no book is going to be any sort of substitute for proper therapy, you can see how it works, how it would work done properly, and you can maybe do some of it on yourself. maybe. if the circs are suitable.

But the problem is, of doing this sort of thing without a therapist to help you, you just make everything all about you and all your fault. You try to take responsbility, and it turns into taking the blame. recently I was being really horribly treated at work and kept doing all these cbt worksheets and trying out all my assertiveness training techniques, trying to firmly and gently sort things out, and people were being so aggressive to me I was walking the streets crying, and then I would do a worksheet on why I was so upset trying to cbt my way out of being upset, and then finally it dawned on me: I am upset because people are being unreasonably aggressive to me and I have no boss, no HR dept and no back up and it is fucking scary.

I just want to thank everyone for their wise and helpful contributions to this thread. The things you have said have given me a lot to think about (as if I didn't have enough! )

i do not want to say that yabu or that yanbu

if your therapist did have children and has suffered pnd her experience would not be the same as yours. when someonen is goign through something that is quite specific they do often want their therapist to have been through it to but it really is irrelevant. if it is that important to you that they have then it would lead to why it was important to you

it may be that you are just not working well with this therapist. also think about what you say, what she is reflecting back and what she is saying from her own point of view

and therapy is very challenging at times you will often feel like you are taking steps back other times you and it can be very painful to be there again other times you will be on a high coming out of a session but once it has run its course you should be able to understand yourself better and have dealt with deep issues

i would bring it up with her why not if you feel it is getting in the way of your therapy

No I don't think that. In fact I think the complete opposite. If she had children with no problems it might make her feel even less sympathetic. I don't relate very well at all to PND. But thankfully I'm not a therapist.

Exactly what rayanne said.

And there is no way that someone can have EXACTLY the same situation, reactions, feelings, memories. Sometimes the client can also project onto the therapist and think that they have to be an exact mirror for therapy to work.
Frankly, I would never diclose anything about myself to a client- it will always be turned back on you! My colleague has four children and still has service users who say 'Yes but it's different for you..'- and they are right.

I think I understand you OP. I had no visitors and we moved three days after DD was born. To say I was a mess would be an understatement!

I didn't want help so much as just company. But I didn't have that and I was very depressed until I went back to work.

In this instance I too would prefer a therapist who had DC. I personally think unless you have some idea of how relentless it can be after a baby is born they wouldn't understand.

Just a personal opinion mind you!

This is a subject personal to me that really gets to me, so apologies if I go off in one OP
But depression, whether PND or any other type, is an illness. It is not the same thing as feeling down because you have no support or whatever. The support bit is pretty much irrelevant, as you are already depressed. I have a fantastic support network, family, friends, DH, MNers. This does not stop me being depressed, it makes no difference, because I am ill, not upset.
After my CMH referral the other day, I was referred for councelling for an unrelated issue. I'm a little irritated about this, because I was already depressed for years before this issue arose, but the CMH team were unwilling to listen to I HAVE NO REASON TO BE DEPRESSED APART FROM BEING ILL. On top of this, I had comments about it possibly being "only" PND. It is not PND, but even if it were, "only" PND from some bloke in his mid-twenties nearly brought out a little of my Rage.
Back on my soapbox a little, I dont think the amount of people referred to counselling and asked about suport networks helps the general publics understanding that depression is an illness, not just a weak person

Go off ON one!