...to think that my (childless) therapist can't understand my PND as well as someone with kids would?

[MamaLazarou]

Sorry - very clumsily put, but I can't think of another way to say it.

I'm 6 weeks in to a course of psychotherapy for prolonged Post-Natal Depression and have discovered that my therapist has never had kids.

I had felt that she lacks empathy with the trauma and relentlessness of childbirth and early parenthood. When I told her that we had had no visitors or support of any kind in the first months of my son's life, she told me that most people experienced the same and that she didn't know anyone who had been looked after in any way by friends or family when they had newborns.

This is just one of many causes of my (possibly clinical) depression but I find it frustrating that she has an (IMO) unrealistic impression of what life with a newborn is like.

She is in all other ways a very good therapist and I do realise that it's a bit late to change now.

I was thinking of discussing it in our next session. AIBU?

Perhaps I should have been more careful in the wording of my thread header. I should have said, 'as well as A THERAPIST with kids would'.

Please, no more tales of how easy people found early parenthood. I'm really happy for you all, honest, but it's not helpful to this thread.

YABVU I spent time in a mother and baby unit and the best nurses/therapists were childless. Nothing to do with wether they have kids or not and everything to do with empathy and kindness and a positive attitude.

I hope you start to feel better soon :)

I don't think it's necessary for a therapist to have had the same experience as a client- otherwise the only person who could be your therapist would be your clone.

Did she say "Most people don't have support so snap out of it" directly or was it phrased in a round about way like "Since most people don't have support, how do you think they cope?" The former is definitely not ok but the latter is fine in my opinion. I say that someone who had crippling PND twice and felt that everyone else had respite but that was the PND.
I would bring it up at your next session though. Hopefully she will be able to convince you that she didn't want to attack or belittle you.

YABU

You could stretch this to any discipline.

The cancer specialist who'd never had cancer.
The male or childless midwife.
The mental health nurse who'd never suffered mental health problems.

If you are not 'clicking' with her than that's another story.

Most people don't get any support after having a baby though do they?
Just their partner for a few days/weeks and then their on their own. I don't know anyone who had loads of help

I agree.

Maybe she was pointing out that you are finding it hard because you are depressed and if you hadn't had PND the lack of help wouldn't have been such an issue?

Mama- just to offer another perspective, I would say that most people I know have had some help or support after they've had a baby. I'm sorry you had such a hard time.

Wrt to the therapist, I would say that if you find her good apart from this, I would stick with her at least for now. Good therapists can be hard to find, and you are likely to feel worse before you can feel better. Good luck.

This has just triggered a memory of me wailing to my therapist that I couldn't possibly leave hospital as my friends all lived so far away and I had no support.

Said friends lived 2 miles way and she asks me how I thought other people got around to seeing their friends.

Therapists are pretty good at putting things into perspective

YABU. Im a Nurse Therapist and counsel patients for all sort of problems, some I can identify with and others that I cant as it has never happened to me. But it makes no difference at all, I can focus on them and their difficulties and believe I can help them.

My husband suffers from terrible anxiety and depression. One thing we work on, under encouragement from his psychiatrist, is not catastrophising or making himself a victim. I offer this as background information to my thinking not suggestion that this is what you're doing.

In your last post you ask for no more tales of how easy people found early parenthood.

I've reread this thread and can't see the posts you refer to. Can you identify to yourself which posts you're referring too?

It's easy to feel defensive, especially when like now you need support.

My reading of these posts is that whilst the majority do not agree that a therapist with children would be better the majority definitely want to support you and post encouragement in your road to recovery.

YANBU

My first therapist for antenatal depression was male and he kept trying to reassure me that his wife had managed not to worry about her baby while she was pregnant (apparently she was off to raves and jumping off stairs??) so I should be able to as well. I got what he was trying to do but all it did was make me feel like I wasn't normal and made me feel worse about the fears I was having. I'm being treated now for similar issues after having my baby by a woman and her approach is completely different. She never makes me feel stupid the way he did. I can actually see the techniques he tried to use clumsily in the way she treats me, the difference being she applies them properly.

I know this is slightly different to your experience but what I'm tryin to say is sometimes a therapist does have a barrier of their own personal experiences which affects how well they can apply their knowledge and training. I would recommend looking into finding a different therapist based on how well that has worked for me :)

mis probably rollmops' response - I have DTs and had the most easy pregnancy, fantastic birth, found the early years most easy and enjoyable and it's just getting better and better. I wouldn't be able to relate to your experience

Am I the only one who thinks YADNBU?

I too had PND and dropped out of two sets of NHS short term 'therapy' because they were offered by very young girls who weren't fluent in English, and seemed to have trouble understanding me even though I speak RP, and who quite clearly, simply put, hadn't bloody lived.

They had no idea what sleep deprivation is and what it does to you physically as well as emotionally. They had nothing more that a cursory, textbook understanding of PND. They were inexperienced and ill-equipped. And probably cheap for the local health authority to hire. You need a wise older woman, at least, who, even if she hasn't had children herself, has helped many people survive the terrifying threat of PND.

Or maybe you don't need therapy. PND can just be a colossal hormone imbalance. It doesn't have to be triggered by unresolved family issues. I too felt far worse trying to dredge up why, from my past, I might be feeling so low. It was like looking for someone to blame. For me, medication was the answer. Not possible if you are still B-Fing, but if I had my time again I'd go straight onto bottle feeds and meds, for a far happier first few years.

Really, you have my heartfelt sympathy. If it isn't working for you, no shame. Get better help elsewhere.

Crossed with amytheflag. Glad to see someone else understands the OP's pov.

YANBU. I agree with everyone who said she is just a rubbish therapist too, by the way, but I think that having children is such a normal thing to do that people don't realise how hard it is, or can be, esepcially the early days. You have obviously been knocked for 6 by your experiences and your time in therapy would be much better spent if you didn't have to explain this to someone who doesn't know how it is. If you have a choice it might be worth trying to find another therapist (although if NHS you might not be able to do this) - although the "more constructive" approach you are going to try might help.

On here you will always find people who have been there, which is great, but also frustrating when you are in therapy with someone who hasn't been there and seems to be projecting a bit of "it's only a baby, how hard can it be" attitude, and you are thinking "mn would get this! I wouldn't even have to explain, I would just say Velcro Baby! Instead I have to go, Well, it's not that simple, as it is very hard to put her down blah blah blah...."

xposts with Amy and Racing. YYY

I have to say I agree with the 'wise older woman' point, racing heart.

But just to say (not experienced this myself but have learnt about it on MN!) that you can take anti depressants and breastfeed. Just have to be the right ones.

YAB very silly.

Can therapists only counsel people who have illnesses that they have had themselves?

A well-trained therapist should be able to help you even if they have not personally experienced the problem you are having.

A poor therapist would be no use even if they had gone through the same thing.

I don't think anybody can generalise as to how much help is normal once a baby is born, it depends on proximity of family, culture etc, closeness of family. I know of people who have flown 10,000 miles to nurse their daughter through what is called confinement which is basically the 1st month after the baby is born and the mother gets special foods to help her heal and produce milk. My own MIL bless her made me lots of confinement food when my DD was born

When you're in therapy it doesn't make a jot of difference what other people's reality is, you have to deal with your own issues. I think you and your therapist just aren't a good match but you're trying to rationalise it by saying she isn't empathatic enough

Agree with others that this potentially about bad therapy rather than therapy with someone who doesn't have kids. Same with Amytheflag's therapist. I think the fact that both are about PND is incidental.

I've had a therapist try to reframe stuff when I just wasn't ready. They weren't patronising or mean, but they were trying to show me another perspective and I see now it wasn't a good strategy; I wasn't well enough to take it the right way. They failed to assess the extent of my feelings properly, and I did not try to correct them because I was full of self-doubt about the validity of my feelings anyway. All this I've reasoned out since. At the time I just felt worse.

What other features of her therapy do you think are good? I'm a little bit worried if you're leaving the sessions feeling miserable and negative. I'm not trained at all, but I'm not sure I altogether buy this "feel worse to feel better" approach unless somebody's actually bottling up hideous abuse or similar.

To be honest I find the "wise old woman" comment very patronisng to the decent therapists out there, regardless of their age or gender.

Just to add you can BF and take sertraline (sp), I did because I had pre-natal depression with my DD

Well I think the age and gender of a therapist can be important. Different people may benefit from

MadSleighLady, that is interesting what you say about "reframing". I struggle so much with the whole business of being in therapy - wasting someone's time, drawing attention to myself - etc - that I can't get past it. I stopped therapy because my therapist made me feel so inhibited (I mean in conjunction with my own feelings about the whole thing)

Oops!

...a man or a woman, and at different points in their lives this may change.

I think this actually has reasons behind it in terms of father/mother roles and projection?? But am not an expert, I hasten to add.

YABU, in that she is a professional. I dont think having children makes a difference. I didnt understand it post DD1. Post DD2 when I had it mildly boy did I understand it!