To try 1-2-3 Magic on my parents?

[3b1g]

The 1-2-3 Magic system works really well on my children, in teaching them to respect boundaries and in warning them when their behaviour is out of line. AIBU in wishing I could try it on my parents? For those think this sounds disrespectful towards my parents, I'll try to provide some context. They looked after me until I was seven, but not especially well (alcoholism, mental illness, personality disorder). The relationship with me is repaired enough that they have been able to develop a good relationship with their grandchildren, but they continue to test the boundaries almost weekly, and cause me and DH a considerable amount of stress and anxiety. If it weren't for my children benefitting from a relationship with their grandparents, I think I would have cut contact by now. The fact that I am still awake at nearly 3am posting this should give you some idea of how it affects me. I have had years of psychotherapy and counselling and have healed as much as it's possible to do while they are still in my life.

Sounds reasonable to me. But what would that look like in practice?

I mean, what actually would you do and say?
Run it by us and we can fine-tune it with you so you have a good strategy in place before the first time you implement it with your patents.

In practice it would have to be a form of behaviour modification that wasn't immediately recognisable as such. Leading up to a temporary withdrawal of communication, maybe?

Respecting boundaries would earn regular texts, the occasional phone call.
1st offense would result in message or email saying " I'm afraid that's not going to be possible" or similar.
2nd offense would result in ?
3rd offense would result in a week's radio silence.

Although I think I'm perhaps being naive to think I can change their behaviour, it would be good to have a strategy in place to deal with the times when they overstep the mark.

What do they do that tests your boundaries?
Can you give some examples?

i can understand how you feel OP. tbh i think alot of people do this anyway with certain people in their lives but just do call it 1-2-3 magic, or maybe even dont see it like the same thing.

i have been withdrawing from my own mum for about 6 months now, not to be mean but for my own sanity, i just cant have her in my life as much as she wanted to be. she wanted too much control. i have to say it is working and i have noticed that if i visit more regularly she becomes controlling again but when it's been a long break between visits she is much more of a grandmother IYSWIM rather than trying to parent and tell me how to.

As Santa has pointed out, it's control issues that are one of the problems, along with making assumptions and also taking liberties.

Asking us to give up chunks of our weekend at short notice to do things for them.
Inviting people we have never met or barely know to our house without asking us first.
Asking us to have distant relatives (that we've never met) to come and stay (we have no spare beds or bedrooms). This has happened three times.
Asking for tickets for school concerts then not turning up (has happened twice).
Turning molehills into mountains and crises into dramas.

1,2,3 magic only works if you can show the link between behaviour and consequences. It doesn't sound like your parents are in a place to understand that link to a point where they could respond to it meaningfully.

I agree with Lougie. You will just have to be tougher and get used to saying 'no'.

Lougle and exoticfruits, I think you are both right. I have tried to identify some of their methods:
Instead of asking, they say "We'll need you to..." or "We'd like to...". I need to work out ways of saying 'no' even when they haven't actually asked.
They usually ask either DH or me separately and expect an immediate answer. I have spoken to DH and we have agreed to both be firm and never submit to pressure to agree to things on the spot, but to say that we need to check with the other one first.

I have thought of another (very recent) example: I had invited them over on my dad's birthday; the day before, they rang up to cancel (fair enough in itself) but instead invited themselves to our house to have tea with the children in a few hours' time, on an evening when we were also having friends over for dinner.

How did you respond to visitors invited to your house? Did you accept it, or sort it before they arrived? Did you not even know before they turned up on your doorstep?

1-2-3- magic could work for this.

''Do not invite people to my home.''

People invited to your home.

''Tell them not to come I did not invite them.''

They don't do that.

Do not be there to welcome the people.

The things they are doing don't sound unreasonable in themselves, but because of the history, it is really important to my wellbeing to keep them at a distance. Their company is emotionally exhausting and each visit takes me a while to recover from. The unpredictability is the worst thing: I can't relax because I never know when they are going to strike next, or in what form.

MammaTJ: how do I say 'no' in the first place?

The conversation goes like this:
"Oh, by the way, so-and-so's wife/cousin plus their children need somewhere to stay in your area for the last weekend in March, so I thought they could stay with you. There are only five of them and they're happy to sleep on airbeds/sofas. They're very nice and it would be good for you to meet them."

What do I say then?

I do realise my last comment makes me sound like a complete wet blanket. I tend to avoid confrontation with them for valid reasons (I can't face the inevitable histrionics) but I also realise that I need to grow a pair (of ovaries of course, I wouldn't want to imply that only the testicle-bearers have courage) and woman-up.

The old MN favourite 'No is a complete answer.'

Just say no, or no there isn't room. Or even no that doesn't suit, or no that would not be convenient.

Just one question for you. Is the relationship they have with your DC worth all this aggrivation? I feel sure you can do perfectly well without them and would not trust that the now positive relationship with your DC would not at some point turn negative.

I can see why this is exhausting for you and your dh.

If you say no to them what will they do? If my mum asked me this, not that she would but I'd just say 'Oh what a shame we don't have the room. If they book somewhere nearby we'll try to meet up with them and maybe you could come too? Where do you think we could meet them?'
Perhaps trying to put some pressure on them to make plans will put them on a wrong footing and distract them from trying to control you?

How are you doing with your recovery? Good I hope. Although the constant worry about what's coming next can't help? The more you let them see you won't allow it though the more it should lessen?

Do you have any siblings?

Thank you. I like all of those.

There is a member of the family who is acutely mentally ill and has just discharged themselves from hospital (paranoid sch.) My parents have asked if they can bring this relative over and leave them at our house for a few hours this weekend (I am not joking). I have now texted my parents to say that I'm afraid we are unable to help this weekend.

Well done 3b1g. It'll get easier. Just keep telling yourself you aren't being unreasonable, they are.

I know you've had counselling & psychotherapy already but wondered if Al-Anon might help?
It's for those affected by others drinking. Doesn't matter whether it's an historical issue: I don't live with my DM any more & I'm not with my XP but I will still always go.
Feel free to pm me if you want more info
They have enabled me to take control over relationships & situations in a non confrontational way & my life is immensely improved
Good luck

They're a bit like dcs who are being naughty for attention aren't they? Any attention is better than none. And really pushing the boundaries. Sad really.

MammaTJ: they are actually very loving grandparents and I don't want to deprive my children of that relationship. They are not as controlling with the grandchildren. However, am poised to take flight and distance myself and the children further if necessary.

CuriousM: two siblings, both live further away and neither has young children.

Thank you Geordie: I have been as a teenager and have learned how to spot and break patterns of co-dependency, as well as understanding that other people's happiness is not my responsibility.

I can relate to what you are saying. It's very important, with quite dysfunctional parents, to let them know the boundaries. I find being incredibly repetitive helps: 'I'm sorry, that won't be possible' they ask again 'I'm sorry, we won't be doing that'. Decide what is reasonable for your family and stick to it even if they turn up the emotional blackmail.

As for inviting people over, my husband once arrived home to find my dad there with a friend in the house, (let himself in somehow). They didn't seem to realise it was my husband's home and that it would be polite to say 'can such and such come over later?' and then listen to the reply. They then asked my husband where the dinner was! My husband then decided that everyone had to stay in a B & B and not in our home for about a year, because they simply couldn't seem to understand basic boundaries like not inviting your (stranger to us) friends over when staying in someone else's house. This actually cured this behaviour, but I had to be very firm 'no, we are not having any overnight guests this year, the B & B is in XYZ street' and repeated this numerous times.

I think the key thing with difficult parents is to realise you don't have to please them, or explain things in great depth, or make them feel ok about things. Just decide what works for you and your husband and then get on with it.

As for the school play issue 'you didn't come last year, so I haven't got you tickets this year' is fine and don't promise the children they will come to avoid disappointment.

I still think my children, and even me, get a lot out of contact with their grandparents as they are very loving and generous, but have very poor boundaries (and personality issues etc) so I agree it is up to you as the more mature and sensible person to set them for them! And, it is a bit like having children!

Thank you Mumsy: it's reassuring to know I'm not the only one!