Page 9 | I wince when women refer to being a mum as "a job"

CQuin · 2012-12-04T17:02:11+00:00

It's so mimsy ish, so martyr and yet at the same time. Our parents would never have said this, is it just the heightened expectations everyone has for everything thee days ? Would dads say this? Eg I have two jobs, I'm a mother (or worse "mummy ") and a hat maker." (or whatever ) Fuck off.

ConsiderCasey · 04/12/2012 21:09

I don't care what anyone calls it really, but I just want SAHPs (whether full-time or part-time) to feel appreciated because the truth is we'd be buggered without them.

Rabbits, you're not a bloody burden FFS!

RabbitsMakeGOLDBaubles · 04/12/2012 21:14

I know. Sorry, my bad mood has awoken my inner drama queen. I'm soothing her with chocolate.

fenix · 04/12/2012 21:22

Hmm, didn't meant to give off the impression that I'm in any way unhappy about my situation. Don't pity me.

I just feel quite strongly about people being honest with themselves and not exaggerating the downsides of being a SAHP to the extent that they forget about the perks.

There's a lot that is really enjoyable about the role, especially compared with being a parent also in paid employment. I hate to see it devalued by pithy remarks about being twenty different occupations, or putting a ridiculously inflated price on it.

It doesn't have a price, but when done well, parenting does have enormous value. It can be enjoyable, monotonous, unpredictable, hilarious, overwhelming, enlightening - it is not the hardest thing in the world, nor the easiest. It's a changeable, challenging relationship but not. a. job.

AllYoursJingleBellbooshka · 04/12/2012 21:28

This is why I hate these arsebuggery threads. Seriously, what is the point of making each other feel bad?

Big hugs to you Rabbits, you don't need to justify yourself to anyone although I can see how easy it is to feel as if you do on threads like this.

If you are a parent and you do your best to raise happy and healthy children then I say well bloody done! Whatever your situation is.

SrirachaGirl · 04/12/2012 21:31

The FACT is that if you choose to have dependent offspring there is a minimum human capital requirement necessary to maintain them. Ditto a home. Couples can make different choices about how they do this. They are all valid...and they all require an output of human energy; it can be done internally or outsourced according to your specifications. What you, or others, call it is neither here nor there.

Goldenbear · 04/12/2012 21:32

Fenix, most SAHP would not suggest it is the hardest job ever but how many people are employed in jobs that could by reasonable definition be described as the hardest jobs ever - not many! Therefore, there are as equal number of parents that work full time that are exagerrating the hardships incurred - oh, a bit like your post. Every point you made could be turned on its head to support how this furthers the disadvantages of a SAHP. For example, if you are the only one earning, the 'breadwinner', you have an income and there is a security in that. Equally, you have an opportunity to progress your career.

If you're SAHP you're not a better parent - of course not but it is a fact that you are doing additional work in the day with the children which you cannot do if you are working.

Equally, people's circumstances differ - it is not always as simple as saying if you don't like it go and find a job. It is not being a 'pathetic martyr' it is thinking about things cleverly so that you get the optimum benefits for your family. That is no more a Martyr line to take than a person deciding they need a full time job to support their family. What's the difference? In my own circumstances it is not beneficial for me to return to work at the moment as my DP cannot share nursery/school drop offs and pick ups. Those people that did find this balance found themselves redundant recently- it is NOT a huge coincidence. He is also a year off being a fully qualified Architect. You cannot become an Architect without a job so he also has to study for that. Given this context it would not be a clever move for me to just 'get a job'.

ConstantCraving · 04/12/2012 21:41

What Fenix says.

DoingItOntheRoofTopWithSanta · 04/12/2012 21:57

1job
noun ˈjäb

Definition of JOB
1
a : a piece of work; especially : a small miscellaneous piece of work undertaken on order at a stated rate
b : the object or material on which work is being done
c : something produced by or as if by work
d : an example of a usually specified type : item
2
a : something done for private advantage
b : a criminal enterprise; specifically : robbery
c : a damaging or destructive bit of work
3
a (1) : something that has to be done : task (2) : an undertaking requiring unusual exertion
b : a specific duty, role, or function
c : a regular remunerative position
d chiefly British : state of affairs ?usually used with bad or good

DoingItOntheRoofTopWithSanta · 04/12/2012 21:57

something that has to be done

*an undertaking requiring unusual exertion

DoingItOntheRoofTopWithSanta · 04/12/2012 21:59

Someone may not like someone else says they do a job, but they do a job. Lets not let our own issues get in the way of facts. A job in no way has to be financially remunerated

fenix · 04/12/2012 22:01

Goldenbear, "hardest job in the world", "most important job in the world", "24/7, no breaks" - this type of drivel is pervasive, both in MN (to a lesser extent) and in real life.

I don't know about you, but I don't hear any other group claiming this about their occupation or role. All jobs have their stressful parts, most have at least something enjoyable about them, others have high levels of difficulty or barriers to entry.

There is no "it is a fact that you are doing additional work in the day". SAHPs don't necessarily do anything extra than a working parent doesn't do. SAHP with kids at school can quite easily use this as leisure time. SAHP of any age children can have staff to do cleaning and childcare. SAHP can be run ragged with demanding kids or can have a pretty chilled out lifestyle. It all depends on their individual situation.

I don't see anyone here telling you to get a job, Goldenbear. If you wanted a career, I'm sure you'd have one.

In most circumstances, and barring disability, I tend to think, 'so you just don't want it badly enough? Fine, but not the same as can't.' If not working suits your situation, great. Embrace that. Enjoy your role for what it is, don't make it out to be something it's not. And if it doesn't make you happy, don't be a martyr, change it.

fenix · 04/12/2012 22:04

Well if you're going to break out the dictionary definitions, which is a bit boring, then let's agree that the closest match is "something done for private advantage".

So cooking dinner tonight is a job. Cleaning my bathroom is a job. Sleeping with my husband tonight is a job. Wowee, I feel so important now I have ten extra jobs!

AllYoursJingleBellbooshka · 04/12/2012 22:11

I really cannot see why it bothers you and others like you so much fenix.

justmyview · 04/12/2012 22:16

I'm with fenix

Tamdin · 04/12/2012 22:20

I agree hoflippinho the typing and spelling have definitely improved!

impty · 04/12/2012 22:28

A typical conversation...

Oh what do you do?

Me: oh I don't work.

Oh are you unemployed at the moment.

Me: no i stay at home with the children.

What am I meant to say? What's the correct description of what I do?

It can actually be quite hard to describe my role in society. I'm not 'unemployed', as in between jobs. 'Housewife' has negative connotations. I gave up paid employment to look after children.
Then because this role often perceived as being quite dull I am quizzed about past jobs.
So, how would you like me to describe myself?

LibrarianByDay · 04/12/2012 22:30

Fenix has made some extremely valid points, I think.

I am mystified as to why SAHPs say they feel undervalued but then insist on devaluing themselves with silly job descriptions.

catgirl1976geesealaying · 04/12/2012 22:32

But impty

That works fine

You are not describing what you do as a "job" but you are letting the person know that you are raising children. Which no one would question in terms of either value or the amount of work involved

LibrarianByDay · 04/12/2012 22:33

Impty - what's wrong with just saying "I don't have a job at the moment, I'm at home with the kids"? Surely that describes what you do perfectly well?

fenix · 04/12/2012 22:34

Impty, why not just skip forward and answer the first question with "I'm looking after the children"?

catgirl1976geesealaying · 04/12/2012 22:35

Yes - "I'm looking after the children" covers it just fine

Goldenbear · 04/12/2012 22:36

fenix, I don't hear ANY SAHP say these things in RL. Can't say I have even read this on MN.

It is a fact you're doing additional work in the day if you are embracing the role properly! As with paid employment people are human and underperform or are lazy in the role. In all my employed roles I have come across those kind of people.

You clearly don't have an understanding of an effective SAHP. I'm not exagerrating my role to justify myself being at home, often I think I'm not good enough in this role. Some SAHP I know take it very seriously as they see their role as hugely influential in their childrens' future but im not taking about the average set up here with the average income.

Equally, I know SAHP that exist in that role as it is what they value as being important. On principle they don't think they should both be at work when their children are under 4/5 and not at school. So it is not a case of not being able to get a job it's that they both don't want one as they think in their set up one of them should be at home.

You are deliberately misunderstanding my point about context. It is all about the circumstances, suggesting that I just dont want a job badly enough is nowhere near the reasoning behind my SAHP existence.

autumnlights12 · 04/12/2012 22:36

because that's 13 words.
'I'm a full-time Mum' is 5 words.
Besides, it doesn't really matter.
And anyone who cares about the phrase 'full-time Mum' needs to examine their own issues.

Goldenbear · 04/12/2012 22:37

fenix, I don't hear ANY SAHP say these things in RL. Can't say I have even read this on MN.

It is a fact you're doing additional work in the day if you are embracing the role properly! As with paid employment people are human and underperform or are lazy in the role. In all my employed roles I have come across those kind of people.

You clearly don't have an understanding of an effective SAHP. I'm not exagerrating my role to justify myself being at home, often I think I'm not good enough in this role. Some SAHP I know take it very seriously as they see their role as hugely influential in their childrens' future but im not taking about the average set up here with the average income.

Equally, I know SAHP that exist in that role as it is what they value as being important. On principle they don't think they should both be at work when their children are under 4/5 and not at school. So it is not a case of not being able to get a job it's that they both don't want one as they think in their set up one of them should be at home.

You are deliberately misunderstanding my point about context. It is all about the circumstances, suggesting that I just dont want a job badly enough is nowhere near the reasoning behind my SAHP existence.

impty · 04/12/2012 22:43

I'll tell you why. If i say that im looking after children the assumption is I have young pre school children. But i don't.
I often then, spend time, justifying why i haven't gone back to work.
Frankly, i don't see why i should have to. In RL however, i am often asked to justify my choices.