'Why did you have a baby with him then?'

[AnneNonimous]

Who on earth decided this was an ok question to ask someone?

My DS's dad is a knob. If people ask about him they are told he is a knob. Why do some people think it is ok to then ask that question?! Do they seriously think I made a deliberate decision to have to have him in my life for the next 18 years?

I get it quite a lot and I have seen it on here a few times too. It is not helpful. For those that ask this you should consider yourself lucky that you didn't end up with someone that mistreated you and your child. Nobody chooses this situation for themselves.

Grrrrrrr

[IneedAsockamnesty]

Leafmould. Perhaps the partner totally out of the blue threw them out of a moving car whilst they were 34 weeks pregnant, perhaps he threatened to kill her, perhaps he punched her in the face or kicked her or pushed her down the stairs or grabbed her round the throat, perhaps he slept with another woman or threatened the baby.

All thins that are perfectly acceptable to judge someone else for none things that the average abuser will admit to whilst trying to impress you.

[NonnoMum]

Maybe young western women have sold themselves short and are willing to sleep with foolish unsuitable partners far too readily and risk unplanned pregnancies fathered by idiots?

Maybe it's a good idea to get to know someone before sleeping with them?

Just a thought.

[superstarheartbreaker]

If any of you have read the Lundy Bancroft book 'Why does he do that?' then you will realise that it is far harder to leave an abusive twat due to traumatic bonding/stokholm syndrome. I had a baby with my twat ex because I thought he would commit if we did as he kept banging on about kids. I did really want a baby too and was sooo broody. Looking back I was incredibly foolish as who would want to stay with a twat? I now realise that was incredibly lonely and desperate to have a family. He isn't in the picture so dd is being brought up without conflict. I do feel for her not knowing her dad and I vow not to have any more children until I am more sorted; if at all but fgs people have babies for many reasons. However without said twat I would not have my amazing and georgeous dd so he did give me an amazing gift.

[Leafmould]

Pixie,

I'm not saying that we should not judge people for appalling behaviour. I'm saying that once you have done what you need to do to be safe and well, and are talking about it with an acquaintance, you need to decide what you want to share with them. If you want to be open, then tell people it was a case of out of the blue domestic violence. If we heard people talking about it perhaps we would be less about it. Or if you can't, for what ever reason, say 'our ways parted', or something fairly bland. There are lots of people on this thread complaining about judgementalism. If you don't want to be Asked judgemental questions, don't invite them by making judgemental comment about your ex, unless you are ready to explain them.

[Lia87]

Leafmould, i can't think of a situation where 'my ex is a knob' would be said without at least some backstory or reasoning being given, if not i'm sure they'd expand on it if politely asked..

And the point they 'become' a knob is most likely when they stop putting an act on.
I doubt anyone is completely themselves when they first meet someone

their bad side gradually comes out, be that being impatient, bad with money, or something small, or something much bigger making them an unfit parent. this other side is bound to be much worse in some people than others

[Leafmould]

Yes, Lisa,it would make sense to say 'my ex is a knob' with a certain amount of backstory. However that is not explicit in the op. I confess I have not read all 156 messages here. Does op clarify this? Because If there was even the briefest explanation given, I'm sure they would be far fewer 'well why did you....' questions asked.

[Lia87]

Nonoomum for a start its not just young or western girls with unplanned pregnancys.
And are you saying there's no longterm relationships with unfit fathers? Or no divorced dads who dont want anything to do with their children?

[Lia87]

Leaf-not sure as i haven't read them all either, but i've had that exact comment made without even calling him a knob. I explained his behaviour and have had (not many, but some) responses such as 'why did you have a baby with a dickhead'

[flow4]

Leafmould > "If we heard people talking about it perhaps we would be less about it".

That's a fair point, actually. DV is still taboo, and people who have experienced it don't tend to talk much about it. If they did, perhaps there would not be such ignorance. But one of the reasons they don't is that there is often such judgement: people saying (or thinking) "Why didn't you leave him sooner?" or "What did you see in him?" or "Why did you have a baby with him then?" So it becomes a bit of a vicious circle.

[FlaminNoraImPregnantPanda]

The only time I've ever heard this question being asked is on The Jeremy Kyle show.

[AnneNonimous]

Leafmould I'm not sure if its completely clear but no I don't just say 'he Is a knob' to people and leave it at that. It is in the context of a conversation. And no not with completely random people as has been suggested...who does that?

I'm not even going to comment on all the people looking down their noses at me this thread has made me incredibly sad.

[pingu2209]

It is when a woman has a baby with a rubbish man who was obviously rubbish to everyone else. Then that same woman has another baby with another rubbish man, who everyone can see is rubbish but yet again it is a surprise to her. Then that same woman has another baby with another rubbish man.....

One is a mistake, two or more is just stupid.

[LynetteScavo]

I am sick and tired of hearing "it's a conscious decision to have a baby...." on MN this weekend.


Is it really?

Does contraception work 100% of the time?

Just because abortion is legal in the UK, does it mean women should have an abortion?

I am in a great marriage, and have three brilliant DC with my DH. Only two of whom were planned. So don't give me "it's a choice to have children". I'm just lucky that I'm in a stable relationship with someone who earns enough money to support us all. If I wasn't things would be very different......

If you want links I'll give you bloody links to teenage girls, older women and everyone in between who have children they didn't plan to.

[messtins]

Wouldn't say it but of course have thought it. Can't understand why you would not establish a man was not a twat before having sex with him.....

[CailinDana]

The point I made Lynette is that it is conscious decision to have sex (except in the case of rape) and what I wonder is why so many women have sex with men who have no respect for them.

[catgirl1976geesealaying]

You choose to have sex
You choose who to have sex with
You choose whether or not to continue a pregnancy

I believe the decision to have a baby is just that, a decision for the majority of women in the UK. Which is a good thing.

[MissCellania]

Of course it doesn't mean you should have an abortion. But how can you say it isn't your choice whether you do or not?
You choose not to have an abortion, therefore you have made the decision to have a baby.

[hatesponge]

How difficult is it to understand that in a lot (quite possibly most) cases, abusive men don't show their true colours until well after a child is conceived, often after it is born.

What precisely should those women have done? Been able to see into the future?

[hatesponge]

often not until after it is born.

[TheReturnOfBridezilla]

When I was young and good looking (!) I was attracted to other young, good looking people. Probably none of them would have made good fathers but that was the last thing I was looking for at the time (being in uni/working crazy hours/saving for a house etc) which is why I used contraception when I had sex. People get caught short all the time though. I guess the answer is never to have sex with anyone you wouldn't want to marry and have a family with. But that wouldn't really have appealed to early twenties me!

[catgirl1976geesealaying]

It's not hard at all

I think nearly everyone on this thread has made the distinction that where twatishness was not evident pre-conception they would not think "why did you"...only where it was.

I also think everyone has made the distincition between general twatishness and abusiveness

[FrillyMilly]

Part Iof me would think why did you have a baby with him but then part of me knows what it's like to have a knob for a father and be the unplanned reason your parents got married. It's easy for me, someone who is very strong willed and confident, to think 'mum why did you marry, have more children with dad' but they were encouraged to marry when she was pregnant, my mum didn't always work and when she did earned significantly less. I suppose there wasn't the ability to be a single parent as easily as it is now if that makes sense, the benefits system was just family allowance. It eventually took her 15 years to end the relationship.

I can see both sides.

[FestiveDigestive]

Have I missed something? Did the OP come back and say her ex was abusive and that is why she describes him as a knob?

There are a lot of people (male & female) around who are really horrible about their ex-partners when there was no abuse in the relationship.

I think the issue is about TELLING people that her ex is a knob & then being annoyed when they ask questions. They must be people she doesn't know well or they would already know about the ex-knob themselves.

[LynetteScavo]

I have had sex with a lot of people, who while they have great qualities, I would not want to have a child/lifelong bond with them. Luckily I never became pregnant by them. If I had, I would not have wanted to have an abortion. It's my right not to want to terminate my pregnancy, even though it's legal. So I would have had a child.... because of a drunken "fumble" during my earliy 20's.

Now, most men I had sex with were actually very decent people, and while we would never have tried setting up our lives together, I think they would have offered what they could towards being a father. So when I see single mothers having to deal with twatish exes I don't feel smug, and think "well, don't have sex without someone you've been married to for years if you don't want to end up dealing with this crap". I think "there for the grace of God go I".

For all those who think otherwise, I presume you didn't have sex until your wedding night, and would have an abortion if you thought for one moment the father of your child might be a twat.