'Why did you have a baby with him then?'

[AnneNonimous]

Who on earth decided this was an ok question to ask someone?

My DS's dad is a knob. If people ask about him they are told he is a knob. Why do some people think it is ok to then ask that question?! Do they seriously think I made a deliberate decision to have to have him in my life for the next 18 years?

I get it quite a lot and I have seen it on here a few times too. It is not helpful. For those that ask this you should consider yourself lucky that you didn't end up with someone that mistreated you and your child. Nobody chooses this situation for themselves.

Grrrrrrr

[IneedAsockamnesty]

How many people have never done anything even mildly wrong or odd in the context of a relationship,

How many have never had a minor disagreement.

It's only when extreme stuff happens like serious wrong doings or arguments or violence that these minor things even get considered to be red flags and if the serious stuff hadn't happened they most certainly wouldn't have been flags.

Think how many women are floored when they find out there loving supportive dh's have had an affair and they has no idea at all neither did friends or family it happens loads

[CailinDana]

I'm aware that DV can start in pregnancy, but what I'm saying is that pre-DV there are surely some red flags that could be spotted? Maybe I'm being totally naive. It's just that with the few abusive relationships I've seen among my friends (and these were low-level abuse, never violence) it always seem obvious to me, looking as an outsider, that the abusive partner was a twat, right from the start. I just don't see it happening that a perfectly stable, lovely person will suddenly start beating their partner during pregnancy. There must be some indication previous to that that the abusive person wasn't quite right.

Again I think it comes down to respect in some ways. I mean, I would never ever put up with being called names. Never. Yet it's clear that a lot of women do. Perhaps being called names is not a red flag for some women - they need something more extreme like actual violence or definite aggression to get the signal that things aren't right? And again, that begs the question, why are women putting up with that? Why are their standards so low?

[FlaminNoraImPregnantPanda]

I knew my ex husband was a monster from very early on, although it started off low level and escalated. The problem was I didn't have the ability (mental or physical) to get myself out of that situation. I was completely out of my depth. Survival depended on keeping him happy and that included having a baby. Protecting my baby was then the catalyst that got me out.

I don't talk about him, mention him or what happened with anyone. Ever. Despite years of therapy for PTSD. I was later diagnosed with ASD, if that has any bearing on the judgment being dished out in this thread :(

[TwinkleReturns]

Cailin there are red flags that you cant be sure are red flags - he lost his temper last week but I know he had a big deadline coming up at work, Ive been ill and the house is a tip - that could be a red flag or it could be a person with normal emotions. Yes they do hide their abusive traits. Thats how hundreds of us end up in relationships that started off like any other but ended up abusive.

In fact abusers are the sort of men who seem overly lovely for the first few weeks/years - the ones that say I love you early on, who put a lot of effort into romatic gestures. They have to be good at the "nice" to draw you in, otherwise they wouldnt be able to hook so many women in.

The name calling didnt start for me for 4 years. Its not like from the beginning of the relationship he was lovely but called me names all the time because no one would put up with that. Equally for some women name calling and controlling behaviour is the worst abuse in their relationship. Not all abuse is physical. Its the frog in boiled water analagy; if you drop a frog in boiling water it will jump back out. So if at the start of a relationship a man called you a "bitch" or accused you of eyeing up all the men in the restaurant, or groped you, or threw you against a wall you would run a mile. It usually starts off with control for eg he might start calling you a lot but he will explain that after that article in the news the other day where a women was mugged locally he is just looking out for you. Then he will start coming to pick you up straight from work - he wants to save you having to catch a bus. Then he might start having all the bills go from his account and not the joint account - well he's saving you the hassle of dealing with it. Slowly slowly the water goes from cold to warm and froggy doesnt notice so doesnt jump out. Name calling is blatant and obvious abuse and so isnt normally a feature of an abusive relationship until the water has become quite warm.

So its not as simple as saying "I would never accept being called names" because it doesnt start like that. By the time it reaches a point where name calling is happening, physical and sexual abuse isnt far off, financial and emotional abuse have very likely already been established for months or even years.

[HairyGrotter]

I'm a lone parent, the father of my child has never met her (well, has walked past her and looked her in the eye), and is a major muncher of dickishness, however, my pregnancy was an accident.

I am guilty of 'thinking' it with some people. If they didn't moan about their situation, I wouldn't think anything of it, but it is when someone moans and moans about it, has had multiple children by the 'dickhead' and insists on having the 'dickhead' involved in their child's life because 'all kids need a father/mother', my inner voice is all over that shit. I'm gonna judge, inwardly, but judge all the same. Soooowwwy

[MissCellania]

Just because there are lots of reasons doesn't mean they are good ones.

As for ^- And a lot of women get pregnant accidentally...

By the way, before anyone hoiks up their judgy-pants at that last point, be aware that estimates suggest that 40-50% of pregnancies are unplanned and half of those occurred while women were using contraception^

So half of them weren't using contraception, and a good percentage of the other half weren't using it properly.

I don't care why anyone had a baby with anyone else, or how. But you need to own your own decisions, it's not anyone elses fault.

[NotWankinginaWinterWonderland]

I was my ex thing for 15 years, I had to dc with THAT, I used to cry a lot about having a child abuse me, I don't anymore, I do cry at bringing 2 dc into this mess, where was my head? Oh yeah that's right I was being abused, but why bring the dc into the relationship?? Even my support worker can answer that line but I have PTSD so I do what works best Iblock it all out...

[TeaBrick]

Here, here TwinkleReturns I suppose it must be comforting for people who have never experienced abuse to believe that it will never happen to them as they are too clever and would get out at the first hint of anything, however as I and many other rational, intelligent women know, it's never that simple.

[NotWankinginaWinterWonderland]

two sorry I get with myself often

[catgirl1976geesealaying]

I don't think this thread is that judgey as most people (if not all tbh) are saying they might think it in some situaitons but they wouldn't say it

We all think things - most people have the manners not to say it

[SnowWhiterThenWhite]

I assure you I have never 'Shagged random tossers' I clearly didn't know my ex was gay or I wouldn't have slept with him. Also I was 16. Not exactly a world of knowledge at that point. I actually can't believe some of the people on here.

[catgirl1976geesealaying]

I have "shagged random tossers". It's how I spent my teens and early 20s

I was just lucky enough not to get pregnant by any of them

[TwinkleReturns]

It saddens me Teabrick. There is still so little understanding about abuse and so much assumption.

[McChristmasPants2012]

Unfortunately twats don't come with a neon sign and when friends/family voice concerns the twat uses emotional abuse to say things like they are jealous what we have is special ect.

[TheReturnOfBridezilla]

Catgirl Precisely my situation .

[SackGirl]

I think that you can have a baby with someone and not realise what a knob they are until after - So the question is redundant to be honest

[BobblyGussets]

I do think it, but, and it's a big but: what to do to sort it and not be victim blaming? That is the hardest thing to put right. We don't want to make women with low self esteem, who made bad choices to become paraihs do we? Someone else refered to the fact that there is evidence that unfathered children don't do as well in life. How to help? How to stop this? They are already marginalised in society.

People with low self esteem need other options worth taking, rather than being knocked up by a twat seeming like a good option.

I don't know how to solve it. I think it and therefore I am guilty on some level of victim blaming, but we do need to invest in young people and give them options.

[BobblyGussets]

FFS Did I kill another thread ?[Hmm]

[Lia87]

Yanbu at all. I've never been asked it in real life just on here.. Its ridiculous that people think they can have a go at you for having a child. No doubt they'd judge just as much if you aborted a child just because of its father being a knob so you can't win either way!

Also people change. The dad may not have seemed like a knob from the start, how do you think domestic violence begins. Anyone having that attitude surely should also judge anyone who has a divorce for having a child with someone not perfectly matched to them.

its such a stupid naive reason to look down on mums. Cant imagine you'd ever hear 'how stupid of you to have a child with her' said to a single full time dad either, sure most would just say he was good for sticking around and doing it on his own.

[akaemmafrost]

My ex was an amazing DH and father right up until I was about five months pregnant. Then he turned into an absolute arse and it came from nowhere. Coincided with him meeting and starting an affair with a girl he worked with. So there you go.

[happybubblebrain]

It's not our fault we are brainwashed is it?

[Leafmould]

If someone is being judgemental about their ex, calling him a knob, I would think, Cor this is a judgemental person, where was this skill in judging people at the start of the relationship?

To condemn your ex in such a judgmental fashion does beg the question, well what happened to change your opinion of him?

If you don't want further questions about the relationship, don't talk about the ex in such a judgemental way.

There are many ways to talk about our exes which give enough information to the person you are talking to, so that they are not left wondering what went wrong?

[hatesponge]

YANBU.

There are some wonderfully judgy and holier than thou attitudes on this thread, if these are a typical snapshot of RL then it's not surprising (though it is disappointing) that people get asked this stuff.

Just to clear up a misconception: you CAN'T always spot a potential abuser. It's lovely and reassuring to think you would definitely be able to, but it isn't possible. Maybe in a few cases but not most.

When I met my Ex, he was mid-30s, skilled tradesman with a stable occupation, good group of friends (who in the main had long term partners). He only drank socially, didn't smoke, had never done drugs. He was generous and kind - always paid for drinks/food when we went out, bought a present for my friend who babysat my DS when we went out.

Apart from one brief row where he made me cry 4 months into our relationship (not long after I found out I was pregnant), everything was fine, and we were very happy.

It wasn't until we bought a house together over a year later that he showed his true colours. Within a week of moving in, he smashed up all my pictures, and punched a hole through the (glass) door. It escalated from there to emotional and physical abuse.

I honestly don't think it was possible to see it coming, certainly not prior to my pregnancy. He has to my certain knowledge, never abused a previous partner, or the gfs he's had since me. My bad luck, I guess.

The only thing I can say is that although I always wanted a 3rd child, I wouldn't/couldn't have one with him. I didn't want to be any more tied to him than I already was, or make it any more difficult for myself to leave him. I suppose though that if you still had the hope someone would change, you might want to give them the benefit of the doubt and have another baby. I never believed my Ex change though.

[AThingInYourLife]

" And no-one should be having babies knowing that they can't afford them without state assistance."

:o

That's almost all the babies!

[Mintyy]

I would never say it, never out loud or on this forum. But it is a legitimate question in some circumstances.