'Why did you have a baby with him then?'

[AnneNonimous]

Who on earth decided this was an ok question to ask someone?

My DS's dad is a knob. If people ask about him they are told he is a knob. Why do some people think it is ok to then ask that question?! Do they seriously think I made a deliberate decision to have to have him in my life for the next 18 years?

I get it quite a lot and I have seen it on here a few times too. It is not helpful. For those that ask this you should consider yourself lucky that you didn't end up with someone that mistreated you and your child. Nobody chooses this situation for themselves.

Grrrrrrr

[NotWankinginaWinterWonderland]

YANU... I cannot even must up anything to argue - shit happens, life happens, some of us are good at decisions some of us have shit lives and try better them, some of us are fucking perfect, I'm not my children have sperm donor.

[Pickles77]

This thread is ever so sad and judgey it was never going to go well.

[nkf]

But isn't the point here that someone says out loud that their father's dad is a knob. And then dislikes the question. Don't talk about your business to people if you don't want comment.

[nkf]

Children's father.

[TalkinPeace2]

My parents had known each other for 20 years before they brought me into the world.
Nobody was surprised when they split up.
And as I've become older (grown up is too strong a phrase) I've realised how staggeringly immature they both were and are.

[DontmindifIdo]

As I said earlier, it does also seem some woman are rubbish at spotting a decent bloke or a crap twatty one, no one does turn bad overnight, it's just some woman do put up with low level stuff others wouldn't that others see as a sign that he's a twat. It's really hard to learn if you don't have good instincts, or if you've bought into romantic notions of a man changing/growing up for you. Someone said earlier that at the beginning the good outweighed the bad, but for a lot of woman, they wont forgive the bad no matter how good the good is, these woman cant understand why you stayed with someone like that, because anyone who has a good "twat radar" never stays with someone showing crapness just because he also has good moments.

The two sides find it hard to understand each other because the behaviour seems baffling, but rarely are woman in good relationships by chance, normally it's because they rejected the twats early on, it's hard to train yourself to be more aware of twattishness.

[SirBoobAlot]

Well put Twinkle.

[TalkinPeace2]

I worked with a girl who had her three children taken away for adoption because of paternal violence
she then married a man who beat her up so much she had an emergency hysterectomy at 27
she then remarried the father of the removed children

over many conversations, it became clear that her father beat her up, and that's what she thought love was

[NotWankinginaWinterWonderland]

Twinkle I agree, must be fantastic to never live with an abusive person, or sperm donor, those people mess with your head, big time.

[CailinDana]

nkf - "respect" would have to be explained of course, but for me it covers just about everything that you should absolutely demand, with no exception, from a relationship. I wasn't saying we should just tell young girls "look for respect" and leave it at that, of course it should be elaborated upon, but I think a good touchstone when judging the behaviour of another person is to ask "is it respectful? Does it show a lack of respect?" It also means that you're not looking out for specific behaviours, which is another trap women seem to fall into ("oh it's not so bad, he doesn't hit me, he doesn't sleep around"), you're looking for the tone and the style of how you're treated, which is far more telling. A person might never argue with you, never raise their voice, never call you names or be violent or aggressive, but still show you a consistent lack of respect in hundreds of small ways. IMO if we teach girls early to be on the look out for that the chances they will settle for a twat will lower.

[TwinkleReturns]

Also someone made a point about why women accept abusive behaviour, why do they stay with someone who treats them badly etc.

A lot of women who are in abusive relationships suffered abuse as a child. They have been conditioned through their upbringing to accept abuse and are vulnerable to it. Abusers pick up on this like its a beacon.
Abuse is never as black and white as it reads. We all lose our tempers sometimes, say things we regret etc. Abusive behaviour starts off very very subtly. Its very hard to tell whether it is abusive or whether your partner has had a bad day at work, is depressed, had a bit too much to drink. By the time it reaches a point where its blindingly obvious that its abuse the woman has been worn down, isolated, is controlled to an extent that she has no money, no friends, nowhere to go and no-one to turn to.
Abusive men often sabotage contraception as a pregnant partner is more vulnerable, is less likely to leave (few women want to face single parenthood and the judgey comments on here show why!) and will always be tied to their abuser via the child.

Making comments based on the face value of a relationship is naive. EA is so so common and there is such little awareness about it that most people who say "he is a twat" will be referring to some form of abusive behaviour. 1 in 4 women will experience abuse. Its not the rarity someone upthread suggested but actually incredibly common. Less judgement and more understanding is needed if we are to reduce the numbers of women fallling victim to abuse, and that needs to start here and now with threads like this.

[TwinklingWonderland]

Yanbu. It can be very hard to see you're in a bad relationship when you're in it and sometimes a longing to have children can cloud your judgement on a man.

But for those who are smug and judgemental, though I may have made bad relationship choices, I have worked all my life, never claimed benefits and live to provide a better future for my child.

[TheReturnOfBridezilla]

I fell pregnant accidentally after six months of knowing someone. We are now married and have a second child and I can safely say he is the most wonderful man I've ever known. I congratulate myself hugely for this.

Luck of the draw obviously. But anyone who thinks a baby will cement/secure/fix a relationship is sorely mistaken. They usually have the opposite effect in my experience.

I have seen very solid, established couples, together for many years separate after having children. The hard work, the exhaustion, the loss of relationship and identity is crippling to some marriages. I think we made such easy work of it purely because we were still in the honeymoon period when we had children and still plainly adored each other. I honestly think that if we had been together years and the rot had already set in, resentments and boredom etc a baby would have been far more problematic for us as a couple.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

I know a lady who left a relationship during a pregnancy ( actually I know several) but one who springs to mind the dad gave no warning signs none at all, not to his wife of ten years nor his employers nor his friends.

He turned into a abusive twat she left she had good reason to believe he would bet a great dad ( he's a cp social worker) the baby was planned.

Another who had the same thing whose partner of 9 years was a police officer.

As to people having more than one kid with a twat, often in DV situations contraception is controlled by the violent partner after they realise that often the first pregnancy creates a dependency on them its a way for them to market it less easy for the other parent to leave.

[nkf]

Yes, all this about abusive relationships is true but....the OP says her ex is a knob. She's recognised his knobbishness. She tells people that he is a knob. What she doesn't like being asked is why she had the baby with the knob. I think if you can get so far in the recognition of knobbishness, it's not that big a step to start wondering why you didn't recognise before what is so clear now.

[RabbitsMakeGOLDBaubles]

I've reached a point where I've come to accept that I don't know how to have a healthy relationship myself. And have chosen for the time being to stop having them, to let my children grow up a bit without that stress.

I was abused, grew up in a violent alcoholic household and then raped a couple of times. I'm learning very slowly, as a teenager I did absolutely awful things that would have my mother aghast with worry, in my twenties I tried to settle down and messed up with the whole thing to be honest.

When I finally had my daughter, and realised she had nobody but me, that was that point at which I stepped back and though, stop throwing yourself AT life and just live and let life come to you. I'm doing counselling and hopefully the Freedom Programme soon. I've read books about having abusive parents. I read on the forums here. I have a drive to enable my children to grow up happily and safely.

When I have a moan, if people do want to judge that, that's fine. I hate my past and the mistakes I made, but I'm trying to learn from them, so really going over and over why I made the mistake and how bad it is to do that doesn't do anything really, I tend to try to be positive and look forwards, but I'm human and do have a rant occasionally, usually because a child has been upset by and adult man who should know better by now.

[lovebunny]

its a question that has been asked a lot recently. as if you can predict the future. possible answers might include
i loved him at the time
i desperately wanted a baby
my hormones were rife and i had to have a baby right then
he's hot and i insisted he was not leaving
i was drunk and had no idea what he was doing...
and so on.
nobody's business, really.

[CailinDana]

Sock - I find it really hard to believe that a normal caring man could suddenly turn abusive with no warning signs when their partner is pregnant. Surely that points to some mental health problem? I mean can someone's personality really change that dramatically with no warning, unless there is some serious problem going on?

[HappyMummyOfOne]

I'd not say it outloud but I would be thinking it. Its rude to say it.

Accidental pregnancies should be rare given the high success rate of contraception, even more so if you double up on contraception. To say a pregnancy with an unsuitable father is accidental is wrong and sad that so many women are sleeping with that type of man.

I think length of a relationships is a huge point, settling down and waiting x years seems to have gone out of the window. I know somebody who says six months is a serious relationship!

Perhaps many have them to ensure they keep the partner or because they simply want a child. Perhaps its to gain a house or a way of not working.

Dont comment outloud then OP re your ex, besides would you not be worried it would get back to the child or them over hear?

[MrsTerryPratchett]

The other day, through work, I met a beautiful couple. Both young, good-looking, charming, friendly, open and sweet. Perfect in every way. I now know that their child was removed because of his violence. I would never have picked him out of a line-up as the type. Unfortunately, I don't think she did either. Some abusive men are incredibly good at hiding their true colours until it is too late. Poor woman, poor child. She has chosen not to leave him, i don't know why. I wouldn't presume to ask. Possibly she's scared, possibly she thinks he will be a good father.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

He may not have been a knob until she was past 24 weeks pregnant.

Also n my experance. It's fairly unusual to be that open about personal stuff in day to day life it would mainly be close friends or family not a unreasonable group to be venting to or looking for support.so asking that question would be inappropriate

Or doing the same thing on a forum you believe to be anonymous for the same reason so all in all responding like that in the context that the op is talking about as obviously its different if you've been asked why you would say it ect, is really unkind.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

.dana nope just fairly standard typical abusive person behaviour. And yes behaviour can change with or without a mental health condition some people are just arseholes but perfectly mentally healthy.

Behaviour is different to personality one can be used to cover up another,the main basis to be able to abuse a person is to be manipulative this includes manipulating the people around you into thinking your a decent none arse hole type person.

As well as isolation a pregnancy can be the easiest excuse in the world to start isolating your perspective victim whilst looking like you are showing acceptable concern " darling I'm very worried something bad will happen to the baby if you do xyz go to xyz" sounds caring until you realise you have done nothing alone and seen none of your friends or family for months and feel like you have nobody to turn to.

[CailinDana]

I suppose, Sock, although I'm still not convinced that a person will become abusive just out of the blue like that without their partner ever realising it before. I see what you mean about covering up your true personality with behaviour but is it really possible for someone to completely hide their real self for years and years, day after day? Surely some aspect of their nasty side comes out now and again?

[flow4]

People who ask this question lack a bit of imagination and empathy. There are loads of reasons why a woman may have had a baby with a twat...

• Youth and inexperience - not recognising a twat when she sees one ( "Aww, he's sooo sweet - I just love the way he doesn't take life seriously!" )
  
• Naivety, gullibility and/or hope ( "He'll change and stop being a twat because he loves me" )
  
• Low self-esteem ( "I only deserve a twat" )
  
• Lack or choice (real or perceived) ( "All men are twats. This one is no worse than average" or "There are only two men on my island - this one's the least twattish" )
  
• Escaping childhood abuse ( "He's not as much of a twat as my dad" )
  
• Escaping another difficult situation ( "He's a twat, but at least he'll get me out of here" )
  
• Finding needs and tolerance levels change once they become parents ( "Partying every weekend was fine before we had the baby, but now I need him to help, not sleep all day Sunday" )
  
• Unlucky type 1 - finding a man turns into a twat when he becomes a father ( "He's worse than the children!" )
  
• Unlucky type 2 - Major twattery - eg. domestic violence - often only begins with pregnancy ( "He never hit me til I was pregnant" )
  
• Unlucky type 3 - finding a man who makes a good father but a bad partner ( "He's great with the kids, but he just doesn't seem to care about me any more" ... And unless we're regressing to 1950s social morality, women surely are within their rights to cut their losses at some point)
  
• And a lot of women get pregnant accidentally...
  

By the way, before anyone hoiks up their judgy-pants at that last point, be aware that estimates suggest that 40-50% of pregnancies are unplanned and half of those occurred while women were using contraception .

[flow4]

Dana, 30% of DV starts during pregnancy :(
Lots of info here