to wonder if life with 2 children is NECESSARILY this fraught and chaotic?

[emeraldgirl1]

Went to visit my godchildren yesterday. They are absolutely wonderful children but very - ahem - spirited. Also there is (I think) a tricky age gap between them - a (very boisterous) boy of 6 and a girl of 16 months.

This means that whatever activity you are doing with one really can't be shared or enjoyed by the other, leading to either the older boy getting frustrated as his games are ruined by his sister trying to join in, or him going berserk with pent-up energy and whirling like a dervish as you do something a bit gentler/more age-appropriate with his little sister.

It seems as if he is only ever about an inch away from physically injuring her (not lightly!) as he does love to play with plastic swords etc which he waves wildly only inches from her face.

Their mum (a great mum) is pretty much permanently at the end of her tether, especially with her son, she cannot get them to do anything she wants when she wants it - even basic stuff like nappy changing, sitting down to eat etc.

I am expecting my first baby in a month (so admittedly my nerves were more frazzled than usual yesterday as I am so tired and had driven 2.5 hours to see them) but I was wondering yesterday - a genuine question - is life with children (more than one, I guess I am asking) necessarily that chaotic and fraught, OR is that a particular situation brought about by certain personalities and a possibly tricky age gap?

I am NOT one of those seen-and-not-heard people, I love children to be active and noisy and just be kids. But to me yesterday this looked - honestly - like the seventh circle of hell. Not a one off as I have seen it pretty much this bad before.

I adore my godchildren but it has honestly made me think - how am I going to cope with one of these???! And is planning a second one just madness?

Or does anyone have experiences of (a bit less) chaos and stress to gladden my heart?!

Yes

One child can be very pleasant. With two, you find that a lot of the time one is unhappy.

:)

Sometimes - yes!

tryingtoleave - thx - I have no experience of the kind of age-gap that these two have, other children I know well enough to know about their lives have more like an 18-month or 2-year ages gap, or closer to 8 years whereby the older one is more able to amuse themselves IYSWIM. I just wondered if this particular type of age gap is unusually difficult or if it is just standard procedure!!

In all honesty, thinking about it a bit more this morning, it was not as if my friend had a very easy time with her son when he was an only child... maybe I am over-estimating the impact of another one! God, it looked tough, though. I really took my hat off to my friend last night. I try to offer to babysit etc so she can get a break (her H is useless) but it has been more difficult since I have been pg and I am aware that I won't be able to offer that kind of thing once mine is born.

It's a hard age gap, the same as the gap between my 2 eldest (also boy and girl) and it IS hard at times! We had points where I would literally not know where to start in the morning and felt like leaving them to it and going back to bed .
It gets easier though, thats all I can really tell you. If your friend can maybe get a little tougher on her boy, get him involved in helping out with his sister occasionally, or help his Mum and really praise him for it that would be a good start.
I used to get DS to help his sister with her dinner. Messy and hilarious but it helped them to bond and they are now, at 7 and 12, very close.

Yes and no. Most of the time yes. There is a 2 and a half year age gap between my girls. DD1 is 4 and bossy. DD2 is 2 and calm. Put the two together and there is screeching, non sharing, boisterous behaviour etc. They do get along sometimes but the majority of it is when they're banding together to be pains in my arse.

I'm hoping it gets better. I love them both and would do anything for them but God, its chaotic. And loud.

Not at all,my ds1 is 7, ds2 is 21 months. They both play nicely together and love each other, although the littlest one does like to hit everyone, which hurts the ds1's feelings.. (We are working on this though) it probably does help that the eldest has a very loving nature though. Anyway no I don't think having two means that one is always unhappy ,far from It.

It's a hard one to work out, as we all only have our own experiences to go on. Perhaps the boy was playing up a bit because you were there? But yes, I imagine that even a (relatively!) placid household containing two young children would look frenetic to someone with only one, or who doesn't yet have any children.

I believe I had it relatively easy - a 3-year gap between two little girls. But even so, there isn't a great deal you can do to entertain both of them at once - especially after the small baby stage when the youngest is also toddling around and wants to join in. It sounds like this boy has loads of physical energy, and is obviously bigger and rougher than his sister. So it probably is harder for their mum, because it isn't a combination that would naturally play very much together.

Right, so what I think I'm getting here is that it may well be a lot more to do with personalities and just the way kids are. The age gap may not help, but it's more about general behaviour and personality?

It was very hard yesterday not to get frustrated with my godson as he was so naughty for his mum and deliberately did everything she told him not to/didn't do everything she told him to! At 6, should he not be learning by now that sometimes you just have to do what Mum says?

The physical danger to his sister is a constant stressor too - I know kids get injured and most of the time it's nothing terrible but I could honestly see an eye being taken out yesterday if things didn't calm down.

Mine are 6 1/2 and 4. It is much better now than it used to be but two together is still hard work. I find when I have both of them they both talk at me constantly, because they want attention. They both want whatever the other one has. They do play together, but it often is something like riding on each, jumping off beds - something that ends in tears. They are both lovely to have on their own.

Wow, that does sound a bit stressful. No, it doesn't always need to be like that, you're probably right in thinking it's to do with a combination of their ages and personalities.
I have a boy and a girl 20 months apart. They are now 2.11 and 15 months and things are currently pretty easy for me, as they are into the same sorts of things, which I think is because of the age gap. Plus they are both relatively calm children so we don't often have the fraughtness you describe. However, the first year was very hard, I found it incredibly hard to leave the house as there were normally at least two people crying, including me This was also due to the age gap, as DS didn't have good enough language at that point to be able to explain why we needed to get ready and why the baby was crying and why it wasn't going to help matters if he poked her because he was bored waiting
I guess what I'm saying is that it's hard to tell as different age gaps and personalities will have a different effect on household hecticness! And also just because something might be fraught or calm now, doesn't mean it will stay that way.

CarpeThingy - for sure, yes, he was playing up a bit because he was excited at my visit (nice to feel appreciated!!)

They really are lovely kids, I feel mean about implying any otherwise!! But certainly calling them 'spirited' is erring on the side of caution. Strong personalities, and their mum is very very soft on them indeed.

WhispersofWickedness - oh dear, sounds as if even your lovely calm children had their moments!

I think I am dwelling on this way too much due to the pregnancy and wondering how I am going to be able to cope with even one child if they turn out to be not-at-all calm.

There are good bits to this parenting thing, right?

I only have one young DD (18mo), but I have found that even close relatives like grandparents don't see the real picture. DD is either excited or overwhelmed when there are other people around (more of the former now, the latter when she was a baby) and so it is always a bit more hectic when visitors are here. Visitors don't see the calmer moments and the bits when they're asleep. DD even sat down for 10 minutes the other day and read a book with me, but no-one else was around to see it :)

No. I have four and life is neither fraught nor chaotic.

Well, I have two boys DS1 13yrs and DS2 6yrs so a 7 year age gap. The first year or 2 were hard with all the attention and physical work involved in looking after a baby/toddler and the problems caused by an 'only' child suddenly having a sibling.

Now, however, it is much easier. Both boys dont tend to be too rowdy, although of course they have their moments! I also have a strict rule, absolutely no sword play, ever, in the house. Out in the back garden if they want to play this game!

boys tend to have lots of energy and i always found it useful to take them out and wear them out a bit. you will find ways of making your kids manageable and learn to understand which situations are ok and which ones are harder work.

if you were a 6 year old would you want to sit down and watch your sister having her nappy changed?

i found one of the hardest things with my first one was working out how to use all the new equipment.

your life is about to change dramatically....but generally for the better...with the odd bit of bad stuff mixed in.

Quote'The physical danger to his sister is a constant stressor too - I know kids get injured and most of the time it's nothing terrible but I could honestly see an eye being taken out yesterday if things didn't calm down.'

This to me is unacceptable. The youngest deserves protection. He does not need to play with swords indoors, nor to get so close to her all the time. A 6 year old who goes to school should be able to treat a younger child with some degree of respect and if he can't or won't, the parent should be vigilant in limiting the damage.
I had to actively protect my baby from a jealous 2 1/2 year old sibling. Now they are great friends at 13 and 11 - both boys. I think a smaller age gap is harder tbh so I think your friend is maybe just a bit indulgent with the oldest or he may have ADHD/other things causing it. What is he like at school?

Don't worry about it, all children are different. It does not mean yours will be the same. As others said whatever it is like, it does get better with time. A Nintendo DS for 6 year old would probably help as well lol.

I have two boys aged 5 & 10 and 85% of the time it is all good, of course they have their moments, but I think that being the same sex helps with a 5 year age gap eg: similar interests, brotherly bond, on same wavelength.

When DS1 was about 5 and his little brother used to crawl through and demolish his Lego creations, it was the same thing!

With a 16 month old there is hardly any time to sit and & eat, pee in peace, etc as you can't leave them alone really, so it is full on, but as they get older this changes.

Also remember that you have only seen a tiny snapshot on what sounds like a bad day, the rest of the time they are probably fine, I am 100% sure it is not like that all the time.

There are great bits to parenting, not just great joyous, wonderful, hilarious and moments that make life just so blissfull that make you have huge lumps in your throat eg: DS1 who is now 10 just had a hard week of Y6 tests at school, he was feeling very nervous about one of them, I dropped him off at school and he came back to the car and said 'Mum please do that thing you do when I feel wobbly' its a little thing we invented 'so I took his hand and whisphered in his ear 'feel the force, your Jedi training will serve you well' and the smile that beamed from ear to ear was priceless.

Sounds daft to someone else, but the bond between parent & child is something that can't me explained or understood until you experience it!

It can be like that, but it doesn't have to be like that!

I did find the leap from 1 - 2 the hardest, even more than having my first. After that, 2 - 3 was a doddle! I just had to be uber-organised. I used loads of tricks I learned on here, the best being the "feeding box". It was hidden under the sofa and contained snacks, books, little puzzles etc, and once I got feeding established with ds, I could pull it out and play with dd1 at the same time.

I suppose I had a different kind of madness as I had close to 3 months of 3 children under 4! And I was ill, with pnd and some other issues related to pregnancy. But I was also fairly strict! Not as in routines etc, but as in what behaviour I would tolerate.

I honestly think the large age gap between your godchildren could be causing discord. Ours are so close in age that we can usually find something that adapts to all ages. Holidays, days out, food, sports etc are all easier with a 3.9 age gap between 3. It also gets all the broken nights, nappies etc over with! I was pg or breastfeeding from June 1999 to October 2005!

And now, at an older age (dd1 is 12.10, ds is 8.10, dd2 was 9 yesterday!) we have a lovely close knit group of siblings who (on the whole) get on well, do some activities together, like the same music/tv/films (we all went to see James Bond in the cinema last week, we all watched Brave on DVD last night). Family time is fun though they can be hard work, with dd1 well into puberty and ds starting on that! Hormones!!

Wishing you all the best with your new baby. I'm the oldest of 6, so only one seems weird to me (though we're stopping at 3, mainly due to my health problems in pregnancy).

of course he might have just been playing up a bit so he got more attention. normally he might be a lot better behaved.

I have two DDs aged 5 and 2.5 and am finding it a lot easier now the younger one is able to play properly for a more extended period of time rather just toddling into her big sister's games and destroying them. It didn't help that DD2 started walking at 9 months but didn't talk properly until nearly 2 and they have to share a room so we had an extended period of chaos. DD1 is quite sensitive and found it quite stressful having a forceful toddler invading her space all the time. I found the period when the youngest was 18 months the hardest. Now you can (sort of) reason with her.

ukatlast - ah, thanks, you see, not having my own yet, I felt instinctively that his wild waving of a plastic sword was VERY dangerous and that he should have been stopped, but I didn't know if that was just me being overly-precious about it. I am NOT criticising my friend, who has a pretty hard time of it, but I honestly didn't think he should have been allowed to just run riot with a hard plastic toy with a small toddler in the same (small) room. Not saying he should be sitting quietly with a book or something, I just think there are some things that need a measure of control, but didn't know if I was right to think this.

I've seen him do that with the sword/a stick/any other dangerous item you can think of (!) dozens of times before, so though yesterday was worse in some ways because he just had more energy, the principle is the same. His mum kind of begs him not to do it but doesn't actually insist that he stop. He has a tendency to throw pretty major tantrums if stopped from doing what he wants to do (all the more so now that he blames it on his annoying sister) so I can see why she doesn't want the battle. But I know my friend finds it stressful and it upsets her and I just never know if I am the one with abnormal views of parenting or if this situation is really a bit of an outlier.

I think he is fine at school/with Grandparents etc - I think Mum is the one he is out of control with...

His dad is honestly useless, either way too strict or just lets him do what the hell he likes.

carocaro your story made me a bit tearful!! Very nice to hear positive sides of motherhood after yesterday!