to use a disabled toilet if I've got the buggy?

[MrsHelsBels74]

Pretty much as the thread title says, if you're out in public & need to loo but can't fit the buggy into a normal cubicle is it acceptable to take the buggy into the disabled toilet? I'd never use a disabled parking space but did this today in desperation. So, is it ok or still a no-no?

Your dd is a delightful little superstar, it makes me really angry that people would comment like that, WelshMaenad!

(Not sure if you recognise me, if not drop me a dm and I will de-cloak :) )

INTRIGUE!

Can I add myself and my four siblings to the selection of babies left outside a toilet cubicle without being abducted?

I wouldn't wish a disability on anyone, but this thread makes it clear that for some people until they actually experience it for themselves they are unable to feel empathy. How sad.

Comments on when children should or shouldn't be walking really piss me off. I don't see what it has to do with anyone else! DS is only just 3 and small for his age but people still comment on him being in the buggy - why? Ignorant idiots!

I remember someone making a comment when dd2 was still in a pushchair at 4, she is nt, but getting out anywhere with the 3 dcs was horrendous because she was having such massive meltdowns, ds was being tested for spinal muscular atrophy, and I was frankly struggling to get through the day, so we bought a double buggy and I cannot tell you the difference it made to our lives (of course we couldn't get it in a toilet though).

Yet another thing that you have to learn when you discover your child is disabled is that you have to grow a thicker skin, unfortunately when I was in the process of learning that ds is disabled, it felt as though someone had ripped my protective shell off.

I suppose I just thought that a simple wheelchair symbol somewhere on the buggy might mean i could get away with not having to talk to anyone!

By the way the test for spinal muscular atrophy was clear, I shocked myself reading that post back!!

You do have to grow a thick skin, for so many reasons. I found filling in the form for DLA and explaining, over and over, why my child can't do the things other children can, utterly heartbreaking.

Of course, one of the reasons mums of disabled her do much stick is because there are so many over entitled mums of NT children who think the world owes them an easy ride and who take the piss out if disabled facilities.

Hazey, I'm glad your son was clear. Dd has type 2 and I find it frustrating having to explain that she has to wait to go to the toilet because parents with buggies find it more convenient to use the disabled toilet than having to waste time queuing for the ladies.

You can't be too careful, see here.

I think my comment earlier up the thread re. your baby will only 'probably' be fine if you leave them outside the toilet was misinterpreted as meaning you should therefore use the disabled toilet. I think leaving a baby unattended in a public place is fucking stupid, I don't care how small others perceive the risk to be. However I don't think the only alternative is to use the disabled toilet. I've used a variety of strategies including knowing where there are buggy accessible toilets, having DS in a sling, holding him over my shoulder, putting him on a mat on the floor and (now he's old enough), just letting him stand next to me.

I have never needed to either leave him unattended or use a dedicated disabled toilet.

where are these disabled toilets that dont double up as baby changes that we shouldnt be using?

I'm not being obtuse I just thi I this debate misses the point. The comments about parents of NT children bring over entitled and selfish are a bit much - as if we can't possibly empathise or have any problems whatsoever. Or frankly achieve any kind of self management or value judgements with regard to toilet use.
If I use the loo in costa and when I come out there's a disabled person waiting it amounts to the same thing.

I refer to my earlier point that its not about perceived selfishness it's about the current loo set up being totally inadequate and family unfriendly. I don't even want to use the disabled loos - I'm fully aware of their intended function but why anywhere built recently is still only kitted out with either disabled loos or tiny cubicles baffles me.

I thinking my dd wetting herself and being humiliated.(teen)\is fucking stupid .

So why are these parents who don't like using disabled/baby change rooms not doing anything about it? Or should the disabled take up this fight for them?????

DD (3) has ASD and is in her buggy. She has a fear of hand-dryers which means if there is a single accessible toilet that's ok for us to use (often e.g. in supermarkets there is one with a toilet cubicle AND a changing area and a chair to (I assume) feed a baby in) then I will use it. There is still a hand-dryer in there and she still looks at it the whole time like this in case it might go off, but at least there aren't 5-6 women setting them off while we are in there (which terrifies her).
I will avoid the disabled toilet if at all possible (usually there is another option, such as the shopping centre which has one large cubicle in the main toilets for parents with buggies or small children).
But, if you saw me using a disabled toilet with her I would imagine that you saw us leaving it you would be judging us harshly. Likewise, no-one has any idea of the disabilities or issues that other people have unless they are actually visible, so I tend not to judge (even when I see someone coming out of the baby changing toilet who clearly does not have a baby...well maybe a little bit then).

exactly needing all this talk about hidden disablities but apparantly no mum with a pushchair can have them! the assumption is that they are fine and taking the piss, but when people with disabilities are questioned they get offended!

i meant disabilities with no puschair

oh ffs , if people did not use disabled toilets when neither they, nor their child are disabled,
no one (IMO) would judge someone with a child with sn in a buggy using them...
the trouble is not the disabled people.....
but the parents who insist that it is their right to use them.

Just recently I've used the disabled loo a couple of times, not because I have a buggy, but because I have had a buggy/trolley with one child in plus a toddler who needs help getting onto the loo and am struggling with a huge pg bump. I can't physically manage to crouch down to help him in a tiny cubicle with painful spd and crouching seems to bring on braxton hicks too. So I do genuinely need the space in an occasional emergency and am happy to queue for it if by any chance we end up somewhere with no baby change facilities with a loo and no-one else to help.

The last time was in a huge Tesco. Long wait outside the loo which was locked. After 5 minutes of ds1 dancing around, taking a look at the ladies loos and realising there was no way I'd manage and realising there were no noises from within, I knocked, wondering if maybe it was one where you had to go get the key. A young male Tesco suit sauntered out a few minutes later, stashing his phone in his pocket. The room STANK and the loo was thoroughly splattered, with dirty paper stuck to the seat. That didn't make me feel like the store respected the facilities they provided, whoever they were for.

I'm all for stores providing facilities for their customers, but in the end making them work well for everyone comes down to individuals having a sense of courtesy and kindness.

So as far as i can see its just following instructions... if your a female adult you use the loo with the picture of a lady
a male adult... use the loo with a picture of a man
If you are disabled use the one with a picture of a wheelchair on the door.
Not rocket science, simple really, we all need to have a little consideration

Having a young child/baby etc doesnt change the above, just means you have to manage your brood within the above constraints

"I'm all for stores providing facilities for their customers, but in the end making them work well for everyone comes down to individuals having a sense of courtesy and kindness."

sadly it is all one way though, in the bugie pushers favour,
never the disabled persons

With reference to "you'd have to wait as long if a disabled person were in there", I'd like to see the evidence for that: who's been timing whose toilet usage?

Quite often people with buggies (or indeed, just with their small children) take an absolute age because EVERYONE is using the loo & washing their hands & there's a nappy change & a make-up touch up & repacking the buggy & writing a novel doing who knows what else.

I think perhaps people with disabilities (and their carers where applicable) are more tuned in to the fact There Might Be Someone Waiting Who Really Needs The Toilet so beetle through as quickly as their needs allow. I'm not suggesting people with prams are deliberately dawdling, but - especially those people who apparently don't believe there's any chance a disabled person might actually ever need to use the toilet they're using! - I suspect that in most cases they're not quite so zippy about it, not least because they don't need the same toileting routine...

HazeyJane - I worry so SO much about My Naughty Little Sister getting crap from people about this as my niecelet gets bigger, especially because she is a leggy lass. Of course, as she's had her second birthday she's now past the average life expectancy for people with her disability so there's a truly horrific chance we'll not have to deal with the pants of judgyness for the very worst of reasons

WelshMaenad - my sister's recently had to deal with some [insert expletives of choice here] cretin who was insisting that my niece can do xyz because it says so on some mysterious piece of paper... "Luckily" at that point my niece was in the PICU so there's plenty of stuff available to confirm she certainly was NOT doing xyz then... It's craptacular enough to fill in DLA forms for yourself (I genuinely got excited about being fully continent the rest of it was so depressing) so can only think having to fill one in for your child must be heart-breaking. Children are pure potential & DLA forms have a way of slamming home how a person's life is hemmed in by their disabilit(y/ies)

"but the parents who insist that it is their right to use them."

it is their right 9/10 disabled toilets have baby changes, and it has been on this thread said that the staff say they are accessible toilets, not solely for use of those with disabilities

"So as far as i can see its just following instructions... if your a female adult you use the loo with the picture of a lady
a male adult... use the loo with a picture of a man
If you are disabled use the one with a picture of a wheelchair on the door"

yes and if you have a baby you use the toilet with a pic of a baby on, which is usually in 9/10 places the same door with a wheelchair!

Whilst I think on, to add my bit to the well-trodden theme of buggies vs wheelchairs on buses, I have more than once been unable to board a bus because people with buggies refuse to move them. Have also had drivers refuse to move the bus until the wheelchair space is cleared. Have have buggies rammed into my chair & shoved into the end of the space so I am unable to move my legs (which, apparently, I can't need to do, because I am in a wheelchair). Have had people throw tannies because they want to put their buggy in the space or because they've been asked to move despite the big old sign saying they can put their buggy there unless the space is required by a wheelchair user. Mind you, I did also once have a driver refuse to reposition the bus so the ramp actually reached the kerb. Apparently he's not allowed to reverse the bus. Who knew?

Think the worst thing I've ever seen was a very elderly man in a power chair being left in the rain because women with buggies refused to give up the wheelchair space. Rawrgh!

nailak, if you need to change the nappy then i suppose so.
But if not the mother should not use the disabled loo just because she has a child with them, thats the rules!