"school snobbery"

[dinkybinky]

I think it?s hysterical that some people think that if you child doesn?t attend a Grammar school or selective independent then they?re not academic. The level of ?school snobbery? that goes on is quite bewildering sometimes.

Yes we can. It isn't one exam either. You can also try again as there is a 12+ and 13+ exam.

A some point a distinction between people's talents and abilities is made. I don't understand the squeamishness.

Laqueen, no one is saying they should play on the same team. One institution can have more than one team!

It isn't.

No sane person can really truly believe that deciding on a child's future based on a test taken at the age of 10nis a good idea. Grammar school supporters are all putting their fingers in their ears and singing so they don'a actually have to think about it!

So it's okay to differentiate between talents and segregate children within a school but not okay on a whole school basis.

That's illogical.

seeker out of genuine curiosity do you believe in streaming by ability at secondary level?

If not then where should the teaching be set? To those who struggle in the subject? To those at the top? Or to the majority in the middle with little allowance for those of greater or lesser ability?

If so then what is the difference from the top X amount of children moving onwards to grammar?

Just trying to work out what you think should happen? Not in an ideal world but in the world that we are in.

But it is not all about getting on to a particular "team", it is about getting the best from everyone.

Of course I believe in streaming/ setting at secondary school. That's what happens in comprehensive schools.

I truly believe it is an incredibly sane thing to do.

Interesting you acknowledge that a child's future outcome is determined by this......

Laqueen not every child is coached. You just don't get it do you? The system is weighted heavily in favour of children like your DD who is being coached.
The exam is different in each area. The nearest grammar school to us includes maths and English in the test. Some of the maths in the test is not covered in state schools until the summer term therefore unless a child is coached they will not score at all in that section of the paper.
There is no 12+ or 13+ at that school. Fail the test at 10 and that's that.
As I say there is no grammar school in our LEA. My dds went to or are at the huge comprehensive. DD1 is a self confessed geek. If she's ever had the piss taken for this she's not mentioned it. And if it's happened, well, she'll get over it. It's not likely to be the worst experience of her life.

Ncredibly sane to label 77% of a cohort "failures" at the age of 10?

Laqueen it's cheaper to provide all the resources for a wide range of abilities in one huge comprehensive than have more than one building. Some resources would be duplicated in more than one school.

Laqueen, abilities change. Just because a child is struggling with maths at the age of 10 doesn't mean they won't go on to achieve an A* at GCSE. If they are told they have failed at 10 and sent to a secondary modern that only enters them for foundation tier they'll only ever achieve a C grade.

Seeker you are the one labelling these 77% as failures. Academic ability is just one aspect of many talents children can and do possess.

Like I said earlier the problem is with alternative provision.

"Of course I believe in streaming/ setting at secondary school. That's what happens in comprehensive schools."

seeker what really is the difference at taking a test at 10 or streaming by ability at 11?

Is it the concept of being at different schools that bothers you? I don't really get where you are coming from but would like to know.

Laqueen, not every parent is interested in their child. Some parents are interested but can't afford tutoring. How can anyone think its fair to tell these children at 10 that they have failed.
In your world everyone tutors. In the real world they don't.

Zeina, your ?my way or the high way? attitude is most off putting the same as your blatant snobbery over the school your DD attended (some years ago, I might add) every child is different that?s why we have choice in our education systems. Thank goodness my DD got to Oxford without going to a super selective and if you are a representation of the parents at these schools I for one, am glad she took the route she did.

But, frankly, I want my DD2, who is truly gifted at maths, to be in a class where the maths lessons zips along at a lightning fast pace, where she is challenged by her teachers and her peers, and where there's nothing to hold her back.

They do zip along in the top sets, in every school private, grammar or state