"school snobbery"

[dinkybinky]

I think it?s hysterical that some people think that if you child doesn?t attend a Grammar school or selective independent then they?re not academic. The level of ?school snobbery? that goes on is quite bewildering sometimes.

I hate it when people say "you do the best for your children".
If that means my kids have to travel a long way to school,and have stacks of stress-inducing homework??....well, I'm glad that my kids go the local comp, a 5 minute walk away,with their friends living nearby.
They are clever children, I've never,ever pushed or forced them to do "extra" work, and they are working at high levels.
Their school was in special measures, but a new head brought about a complete transformation in exam results,over the last couple of years, so that this year they had their best ever results at GCSE and A level, overtaking the other secondary school in the town ,which had a far better reputation! All this at a school in a "deprived" area. My daughter was selected for a visit with 15 others from her year to visit Oxford University as she is considered capable of going there....but she doesn't WANT to go there,she wants to go to York.
My children love their school. So I guess I actually am doing what is best for them.

I have one DC at a superselective GS and one DC at the local comp. Both of them have SEN conditions - the one at the SSGS has sever dyspraxia, the one at the comp has dyslexia and is very slightly AS (the one at the SSGS might be too but it's not been diagnosed - the interface between dyspraxia and ASD is fuzzy at the best of times). The DC at the SSGS is 100% definitely at the right school for her, not just because of her academic abilities and her physical and other issues, but also because it is small enough for her to cope with. The DC at the comp might have done well at the SSGS but he was adamant he didn't want to even try for it. His life, his (informed) choice - he is two years younger than his sister, he looked at her life (which she adores) and said very clearly that it's not for him.

So, am I 50% snobby?

OwlLady - don't worry, it is a silly thread full of people being incredibly snobbish, as predicted!. My pfb dd is incredibly academic but she goes to a comprehensive school because I DO NOT WANT HER MIXING ONLY WITH PEOPLE EXACTLY LIKE HER AND I DO NOT THINK ACADEMIC ABILITY IS THE ONLY THING THAT EDUCATION CATERS FOR. Seems I am in the minority on this thread and pmsl at the idea that I don't value education because I didn't put dd forward for grammar school or sell our house and downsize to pay private fees.

But bright children from very poor backgrounds are very unlikely to seek them out, precisely because they DON'T have the parents who see that kind of aspiration as legitimate and possible. That is why grammar schools are divisive - they filter primarily on grounds of class and parental education, not ability.

It's the parents that create that problem, not the fact that the 11+ and grammar schools exist.

If we got rid of grammar schools, what would be next? Children wouldn't be allowed to go horse riding, because some parents couldn't afford it? No extra curricular clubs because not all parents are motivated to find out about them so they give some children an advantage over others?

Society has many different threads, why do people keep trying to make us all the same?

What is all this choice bollocks?

It's not a choice for us or indeed most people I know - we could never afford private education no matter what sacrifices we made.

Am also at some of the serious BOASTING on this thread

it is one of the most boring conversations in the world to me, women who go on and on about their child's education. poor kids these days are tutored within an inch of their lives they don't have a chance to just be children.

Why though is Hiiggb unable enough to pay £10k school fees? What is it that makes some women earn £1k a day and some nothing or minimum wage £13,500 a year? Is it truly impossible to get to a position to pay school fees? Why do some women assume they can never earn a lot and others can?

is it not just a circle though xenia, get a highly paid job to put kids through tough academic school for them to repeat cycle?

why do some women assume we need high academic standards to be happy, after all life is pretty short.

would be nice if we could concentrate on making education fantastic for All children.

Xenia

If every single woman became a lawyer or consultant or doctor or similar on £100K + society would fall to fucking pieces. SOMEBODY has to wipe arses, stack shelves, pack vegetables, you SILLY, SILLY woman!!

I do work btw before you hit me with that bullshit chestnut.

Honestly what a complete load of DOGSHIT.

I don't assume you need good exam results to be happy. However learning is fun. Happiness is determined by the levels of various chemicals in your brain although in fact the better diet at some private schools, more exercise and fresh air my actually assure more happiness than a cramped inner city school without playing fields. Those are the things which increase levels of seratonin in the brain and dopamine and beta endorphins.

However a child can be happy and do well at school and have a nice school environment and earn a lot. In fact some private schools it is perhaps easier to be quite academic in or play your music etc as everyone in the school is likely to be into similar things. IT is not so easy for those in some state schools (not all) where there is violence and low level disruption in class and in London at least we have schools where children have been knifed.

The circle of clever women giving birth to clever childrne of course may simply be genetics.

Come on then, Xenia, who is going to make the bog roll you wipe your arse on?

I'm not sure if you're not just a construct of my imagination tbh.

I'm going to get deleted aren't I?

yes, learning is fun, but also not everyone learns at the same rate (am doing at degree myself at the moment)

this is why i would like 'exercise and fresh air' argument to be put into practice in state schools. don't get why people wouldn't want that for all the population, especially in these times of riots etc.

Mintyy, c'est moi.

Oh yes, I would like the exercise and fresh air argument to be in state schools too. Hate the way they sit in a fucking cellar in games lessons playing tetris. For fuck's sake.

lol the national curriculum is a bit mad though isn't it \link{http://rethinkingchildhood.com/2012/07/16/child-school-report-read/#more-2032\look at this article} if you can be arsed

I'm glad that we love where we do in Wales.

Our ds's are being educated in the medium of Welsh. Our nearest Independent Welsh Medium school is in London .

Our catchment Welsh schools are all excellent and we are very happy that our dc will attend them.

As for the salaries of women - I'm sure that Xenia would be shocked to hear that I took a job of a lower grade and dropped some hours recently. Why? To be able to take our dc to school and collect them every day. We have had numerous problems with childminders which were causing both us (DH and I) and our dc stress. When the opportunity arose to rid ourselves of that, the. Of course I jumped at the chance.

We are not in a position currently, and nor would we want our dc to be at an independent school many miles away from home.

If I pursued my career and pushed for every possible promotion (which are extremely few and infreqent) in the persuit of financial gain, then perhaps we might be able to afford that. In my opinion, taking the drop in grade, hours and ultimately salary has been a hugely positive move for me and our dc.

What is the argument - that we should all ensure our children do badly at school because we need to ensure a good few are availbale for low grade jobs? That isn't right. I suppose it might be like the Chinese in the cultural revolution when children of doctors and the very bright were sent for 10 y ears to work in prison camps or on farms to ensure their talents were entirely wasted but that experiment in China did not really work very well.

I have never said we don't need people to manufacture things and do a range of tasks. All I have said is that it behoves each parent to do the best for their child. Let the children of others lead lives of near poverty on mumsnet credit crunch threads of the future and instead ensure your own child does rather better because then life can be a trifle easier, particularly for women - relying on male earnings is not wise. Earn your own money. Pay your own children's school fees.

Love and live where we do

Do grammar/ independent schools teach the skill of proof reading?!

Yeah Xenia. Yeah, that's the argument people are making, well spotted. Jesus.

Some interesting points, Xenia.

Some women don't earn enough to pay school fees because they want to have some form of work/life balance.
Some women don't earn enough to pay school fees because they have faith in their DCs' ability to do well in local state schools by providing extension and support at home.
Some women don't earn enough to pay school fees because they don't believe that private is always better.

I fall into all of the above three categories, though I will admit that I am fortunate to live in an area where the state schools are good - though not Outstanding.

That's just avoiding the obvious answers about care workers, cleaners etc. - people who do essential work which society doesn't value, people who have difficult complicated lives involving DV and abuse - the list is endless.

I totally agree with you that women should earn their own money, and that not to do so is dangerous.

i don't believe that sending my kid to the local highly selective school (even if i could pay for it (lol)) would be the best for my child. it would give him a lifetime of stress, having to earn enough to live within the means expected and probably keeping some mad crazy woman in boden clothing (and then she would divorce him for half of his eternal earnings).

i just don't think that would make him happy. i think we really underestimate the value of happiness