to think the song Imagine is not only a dreadful dirge, but is also complete and unworkable twaddle

[MardyBra]

Just heard it on the radio. I don't know why so many people like this song, and go on and on about its sentiments. But there is no tune to speak of, and the lyrics are shite.

^"Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky"^

Well I don't need to imagine that. There's no evidence that there's a heaven above us and a hell lurking under our feet, as far as I'm concerned. Even a lot of Christians don't believe heaven and hell are literally and physically above and below us.

"Imagine all the people living for today"

So nobody bothers to work, save, make plans for the future, provisions for old age, build anything over the long term, even preserve food for the winter. Just get up and do whatever you fancy for the day?

"^Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace^"

OK, so if we're going to abolish countries, what are we going to replace them with. There needs to be some sort of political and administrative framework, otherwise we'll live in total anarchy with no taxes, no education, no welfare state, no police - a bit like that telly programme Survivors, where they're all running round the country brandishing guns and nicking stuff off each other. Religion, I know, has been "done to death" on MN. Personally I think everyone can believe what they like, and religion can be a comfort to many, as long as it doesn't impact on others. Anyway, how can you ban religion? You can't change the way people think. It's a bit 1984.

Yes, I can see that national identity and religions can cause wars, but abolishing them is not practical.

"^Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people sharing all the world^"

So how are we going to manage this no possessions business? Does that mean that anyone can just help themselves to anything they fancy. Someone can just help themselves to food I've grown in my garden, rip the clothes off my back and wear them because they don't "belong" to me or just decide to move into my house because they don't fancy their own place any more. If there are no rights of possession then everyone might end up squabbling over stuff and then we'll all go hungry.
Hopefully if he's talking about a "brotherhood of man", most of this won't apply to women.

"^You, you may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one^"

Really? There are other people who actually think this.

[Absy]

Wasn't it "song of the Millennium" or something for Channel 4 in 2000? Given that it's the communist manifesto to music, it was ironic

I HATE a song which has the lyric "How can I breathe with no air". Well you can't you idiot, you CAN'T. So STOP SINGING. I used to do that little rant every time it was on the radio, c. 2009.

[thegreylady]

When I was a teenager I thought that if a all the world leaders would listen to Bob Dylan singing Masters of War then there would be immediate peace then I grew up...

[SaskiaRembrandtVampireHunter]

MardyBra Couldn't agree more! Imagine is an awful, awful song. It might as well be:

Imagine all the puppies,
And all the kittens too,
Snuggled up together
They never need to poo.

It's about as profound and well written as that. But then, most of the Beatles back catalogue consists of annoying, hand-clappy, love songs with lyrics that were only written because the lines rhymed and scanned.

[slalomsuki]

I absolutely hate this song and have done since it was released.

Ds has just a project in John Lennon and I really had to resist saying something to the school about the lack of a role model and the rubbish pseudo philosophy he spouted.

[whizmum]

I hate this song.

[OldMumsy]

OP I admire your logical deconstruction of this song. You are right, it's a dirge and the words are pretty stupid in the main. Well done

[wearingpurple]

YANBU, I have ALWAYS said this.

Made me laugh when it was played at the Olympics closing ceremony. 'Imagine there's no countries'. Hmm, the Olympics might need a major rethink in that event.

[OldMumsy]

Mull of Kintyre used to make me particularly stabby years ago, but I have a total aversion to bagpipes which didn't help.

[complexnumber]

I think JL wrote some great lyrics:

^As soon as you're born they make you feel small
By giving you no time instead of it all
Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all
A working class hero is something to be^

They hurt you at home and they hit you at school
They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool
Till you're so ing crazy you can't follow their rules
A working class hero is something to be^

^When they've tortured and scared you for twenty-odd years
Then they expect you to pick a career
When you can't really function you're so full of fear
A working class hero is something to be^

^Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV
And you think you're so clever and classless and free
But you're still *ing peasants as far as I can see^

So... if you don't like it, you're a fucking peasant.

[KatieScarlett2833]

I mentioned that one upfred complex

[irishchic]

Mardybra Totes Agree!

[MardyBra]

OldMumsy - we are obviously musical kindred spirits. I also loathe bagpipes - horrid whiny things.

[shadylane]

Almost all music/musicians have a vaguely left-field or radical way of thinking and that is as it should be. Clearly you have no artistic appreciation if you think you have to literally believe in a song for it to be good.

[badtasteflump]

YABU. I didn't used to rate the song much one way or the other - but then I had to sing it one night and was a bit 'meh' - but then I really enjoyed it; have added it to my 'repertoire'; and have loved it ever since

[Fakebook]

The song was written about an ideal communist world. Lenon was a communist.

[MardyBra]

"Almost all music/musicians have a vaguely left-field or radical way of thinking and that is as it should be. Clearly you have no artistic appreciation if you think you have to literally believe in a song for it to be good."

PMSL laughing at the leap of logic that I have no artistic appreciation just because I don't like a particular song.

[shadylane]

No I meant you saying it wasn't good because it spouts 'unrealistic ideals' was a bit shortsighted artistically speaking.

[caramelwaffle]

Yanbu.

[MardyBra]

I beg to differ shady (I prefer to be polite when disagreeing). I think it's a dirge first and foremost. The ideals are of a peaceful, harmonious work are of course laudable but the song irritates me in its naiveté (sp?) in how that can be achieved.

Although, of course, music is subjective, we all have different tastes. badtasteflump, for example, enjoys singing it, and it is entirely reasonable to for her to tell me IABU so nicely (even with a smile)

[MardyBra]

It's one of those irregular verbs isn't it?

I don't like it much
You have no artistic appreciation
He/she has bad taste

[OldMumsy]

Mardybra, bonded over mutual bag pipe aversion Thank goodness I'm not Scottish.

Complex those lyrics are self indulgent wank IMHO, so I must be a fucking peasant!

[KitchenandJumble]

Yes, and what about the truly unfathomable lyrics of "Twinkle, Twinkle"?

"Twinkle, twinkle, little star."

Everyone knows most stars don't really twinkle. They shine with a steady brightness. They only appear to twinkle due to the turbulence of the earth's atmosphere.

"How I wonder what you are."

What nonsense. You know what it is. You've just said it's a star FFS.

"Up above the world so high
Like a diamond in the sky."

A star is nothing like a diamond. What an absurd comparison. You can hold a diamond in your hand, you can wear a diamond ring on your finger. Could you do that with a star? Well, could you?

Obviously I'm being facetious. :) I just think your analysis of "Imagine" takes some of its metaphors a bit too literally.

[MardyBra]

No offence to the Scottish intended from me either. I don't like Irish or Spanish bagpipes much either.

[MardyBra]

"Obviously I'm being facetious."

[MardyBra]

Liking your work Kitchen