To think a teacher shouldnt say this?

[DrWhoBrain]

Ds 6 has a new teacher and last week they went swimming in class. Ds was upset after school and said he didnt want to go back again because the teacher told him that if he didnt sit nicely (he WAS messing about) he would throw him in the deep end of the pool. Now ive asked ds over and over to ensure hes telling me the truth, ds tends to take things very literally and is scared of water so the teacher may of been joking but ds didnt think so as he wasnt smiling or laughing. AIBU to think joking or not its not a nice thing to say to a 6 year old? the teacher is new as i said and this is their first teaching post, just intrested in other opinions and wether i should be pulling the teacher up on this?

Leave the teacher alone and help your son with the life skills he needs.

heggihog, some kids do believe that. My ds certainly would.

I'd have laughed it off as a child but ds wouldn't. I asked him to shut the cupboard once. He did, with him inside...he doesn't get it. He is a bright child but he just doesn't function the way we do.

@ lovebunny
Possibly, in hindsight a bit of a silly thing to say but not enough to warrent any kind of reaction. I'm sure it wasn't intended to terrify. Kids are strange sometimes, I remember having hysterics every night at about the same age after a teacher had told me that " If you aren't in bed by 8, you'll be tired in the morning" Having no proper concept of what tired actually meant I was horrified at the thought of not going to sleep on time. Poor teacher had no idea

Welshmaed - How come you picked me out there, when others have said the same thing before me, including a woman (Hecate) who's child has a similar problem? And I don't mean to be rude but we arent talking about your child here are we.

I expect the teacher said it tongue in cheek. My kids (9 and 4) wouldn't blink if you said that to them as they would know it to be untrue, they have a great sense of humor (even if the teacher was dead pan) and would take the direction to behave on the nose. What would upset them is being shouted at.

Is it possible he is on the autistic spectrum, with him taking everything so literally (and also the sensory issues)? In which case maybe you should let the teacher know about your sons possible SEN so she can support him approriatly. Maybe you could explain to teacher how son took what she said so literally.

Look on the national autistic website for tons of info. Theres a great outline of typical traits.

See whilst you child's behaviour may need addressing (a completely different issue and one none of us can comment on really). The teachers comment was inappropriate. There are things you can joke about, but throwing a 6 year old into water as punishment is not one of them!

Not the best choice of threats for a teacher to use.

I would mention to the teacher that your DC tends to take things literally. It takes a while for teachers to get to know children, and if you give the teacher the heads up about this, it could save your DS anymore confusion or worry.

DrWhoBrain, I think you've got some particularly harsh replies on this thread.

I'm not sure what's wrong with people this week end.

I think the teacher threatening your son is out of order. They might be newly qualified, but they are still a teacher, still had a rigorous teacher training programme so should know better.
However, I would try to keep it light hearted and just point out that DS was upset.

Most children find this kind of reprimand funny and it makes the point. If your son doesn't have sensory issues/suspected spectrum issues, maybe he just needs to be a bit more independent and grown up. If he does, it's obviously a very different response needed and I assume you had already discussed his needs with the new teacher.

OK, I wouldn't do it as a teacher though frequently say far worse to my own dc, but get a grip all of you claiming emotional abuse. Sorry to burst your bubble but much worse stuff will happen as they grow up, I promise you. Particularly if you pander to them and over-protect them.

Parents need to focus more on the poor behaviour of their own children and stop oveer-protecting their precious badly behaved offspring. Get over it and toughen him up, or get help if you think he has sensory issues and keep the school well informed.

My response would be so what did you do to make him say that, then well he obviously didn't mean it but that behaviour is really never OK and really upsets teachers because they want you to be safe. If you behave like that again we'll have to discuss if you're actually sensible enough to go swimming. Now go to your room and think about your behaviour.

Obv above doesn't apply if OP's dc has specific behaviour issues.

Your Ds needs to learn to sit and pay attention and the teacher needs to learn never threaten anything that they won't/can't follow though on. Would he really throw an non swimmer who's afraid of water in the deep end? I doubt it, unless he's a complete nutter. I might approach it from that angle if I spoke to him about it.

DrWhoBrain, it sounds like you are having a hard time getting your ds diagnosed and getting the help you need. I would suggest that you don't wait for the diagnosis to happen in order to give your ds what he needs. There is lots you can do to help him and give him tools to cope. Do research on the internet for his symptoms/behaviors and don't wait. The earlier you give him help, the better the results will be. My ds is not on the spectrum but has all sorts of learning issues and if I had waited for the schools/teachers/experts to diagnose him, he would never have gotten as far as he has. It's hard and frustrating to do it on your own when you should be getting help...but the results are worth it.

Thank you for the replies. Like alot of others if had been said to me at school id probably have found is amusing although i cant remember being 6 so not sure at that age. I think what irritated me slightly is it wasnt said to a class but to ds directly and it just seemed innapropriate to the situation as pp above said theres no point giving a consequence that you wont follow through on. Im going to wait until parents night coming up and speak to the teacher to find out how hes getting on generally with behaviour etc.

SofiaAmes - Yes its difficult i have been reaserching online since he was a toddler, but all those who can help have generally wanted to wait and see how he progresses with age the fact he is fine academically makes people even less likely to see his difficulties. Despite hours and hours of searching, reading forums, websites and books i am not sure myself what SN if any we are looking at, as my gp said he sounds quite complex and has a jumble of ADHD, ASD, dyspraxia type traits. We are using various methods already to help him i.e wobble cushion, traffic light behaviour system, visual reminders etc, but unfortunately i cant be there to guide him at school so it can easily go out the window, he is not a naughty child but his quirks can make him appear so, i am trying honest.

Have you told the teacher about the concerns re: SN?

I know that if a child comes to me crying about a small scratch on their leg then the best way to diffuse the situation is to ask them if they want me to chop their leg off - which usually has them laughing and running away with all thoughts of a scratch forgotten. I agree that threatening to throw a child in the deep end isn't quite in the same league, but tbh, there isn't a teacher in the world who hasn't at some point said something to a child in complete innocence that they haven't regretted later!

If you are using specific techniques at home that are working, why are these going out of the window when he is at school? Have you not shared these with the teacher?

Trust me, the teacher will be grateful to have any input and advice from you. In teaching, you gain your knowledge and understanding of SN from teaching children with SN. If your teacher is new, they might not even have heard of all your DS's suspected/possible SN, let alone know how to manage his behaviour appropriately in light of these.

I attended one 2hour lecture on SN/SEN when I did my PGCE when we had to compile a list of possible SN/SENs and were told the distinction between the two and that if we had any concerns we were to speak with the SENCO. You are the expert in your child and you need to share that expertise with the teacher. And if you don't feel like the expert. Remember that you still know more than they do!!!

RuleBrittannia are you mad?! Report the incident as 'emotional abuse'???
Utterly ridiculous!
OPs son was endangering other children by 'messing around' by the pool.
I am all for the gentle-gentle approach with children but there are times when one must get the house in order and do it pronto. Rules are rules and must be followed.
OP should have a good chat with her son about the dangers of 'messing about' around water and not listening to the teacher.
She should also talk to the teacher in question and make her aware of the fear of water and erratic behavior it obviously causes in OPs son.
Also tell teacher that her flippant comment about throwing child into deep end was not acceptable and could have caused further problems regarding pools in OPs son.

It only really matters if teacher regualrly says things like that.

Emotional abuse?????? Come on!

I think there's a couple of lessons here for your son

1. he shouldn't mess about at swimming lessons
2. sometimes people say things that aren't to be taken literally. He won't learn which are which immediately of course but he still needs to learn that is the case.

As for the poster who said that teachers should not make threats ever, what would you do with a class of 34 who refuse to behave apart from administer a threat? And no, I don't mean a physical threat. It's called a consequence of bad behaviour.

Of course it is right to make sure your DS knows about the dangers but I do not think a teacher should have threatened him joking or not, surely its the same as saying if you carrying on being naughty I'll flush your head down the toilet!

How can anyone actually think it is ok for a teacher to say this?

A teacher should be able to make threats ie if you don't behave you will get detention, no playtime etc but not actually physical threats that they have no intention to carry out (hopefully).

Threatening to throw a child in the deep end is a physical threat. It is not appropriate to say to a 6 year old who is not your own child

You should be focussing on getting your child to understand that "acting silly" around a swimming pool is dangerous and unacceptable; especially if he can't even swim. What's the bet the desire to muck about next lesson suddenly disappears? If she'd pleaded with him to behave he would probably still be disrupting the lesson, putting himself and his classmates in danger.

I think you need a gentle word with the teacher that this phrase has upset your child as he is very literal in his understanding. yes acknowledge that your son should have been behaving, but if school are aware that he is undergoing assessments they need to give him extra support to behave. there are plenty of things that the teacher could have done alternatively depending on the circumstances/staffing. and yes I have taken whole classes of childen swimming...

actually, I am really cross as this is an unprofessional thing to do if he eally said it and your child is not mistaken. still a good opotunity to go in and emind the teacher of you child's difficulties as he might not have had time to read through everything yet..

The school might not have made the teacher aware of your son's difficulties either if hasn't yet been diagnosed.

I have a child who has some ASD traits and I'm a swimming teacher who -occasionally, thank God - teaches large groups of 6 year olds in the pool.

Frankly, it's a nightmare - they're waaay too little to really take in the safety issues, they often just think they're there to muck about. They often don't have the listening skills - even NT kids - to work out what's going on in that noisy atmosphere. School swimming is exciting - the coach/walk to the school, the changing rooms, the new teachers, seeing everyone in their swimming costumes etc. And then just half an hour in the pool to actually learn swimming.

One child with SN doing what he/she wants can be enough to disrupt the whole class. You have to try and get behaviour under control somehow for safety's sake.

I have a lot of sympathy for the young teacher.

I also think, as a parent of a possibly-ASD child, frankly if it "worked" and will keep him safe in that context, that's a bit of a good thing. My DS sometimes has to be terrified into not doing stuff that is flat out dangerous.

But you should definitely let him know how distressed your DS was. It may mean they have some trouble getting him through the whole preamble and back into the pool.

You can also make sure your boy has water confidence skills and is good at swimming so he won't mind if someone throws them in the deep end. My 7 and 5 year olds LOVE being thrown in the deep end. Take him to additional lessons if money allows. Classes will be smaller and the swimming teachers will get to know the children better.

Good luck.

I think the are 2 things going on here

1. The possible issues that your little boy is facing
2. The teachers threat

For the first problem, this is something of which you are aware and are pursuing, and fwiw, I think you are taking the right approach not jumping in with a diagnosis too early
For the second... My hubby and I are both primary school teachers, hubby teaches Y3. He often says things like this to kids, it is part of being a male teacher... He also treats our little girl differently to me in terms of rough-house play etc
emotional abuse ha ha, my god, not even close.

I would mention it to the teacher concerned, and maybe point out the you are concerned that yr son is taking things literally, make it into a funny anecdote ("you won't believe that xxx actually thought you would throw him into the pool the other day") as if you don't, the whole incident will be replayed on the staff room at break time, teachers have enough on their plates than to worry about a throwaway comment like this obviously was.