So am I just looking for fault?

[TheEnthusiasticTroll]

This be long as I am trying to see this from this all perspectives.

Dd aged 6 in year 2, made a remark about another child who is black. She was passing him a black button and said that he didn't need a button as his face was black.

Another child who is slightly older than dd, not sure the relevance, but this girl is far more grown up than my dd said " that's well racist, I'm making sure the teacher knows what you said" and then proceeded to march dd to the head with out her class teacher realising until they had left the class room.

The head shouts at dd, "that is rude, how dare you be so rude, now get back to your class room and get on with your work" and leaves the other child to escort dd back to class, whilst passing the class teacher who is looking for the girls.

This is according to dd, but I have no reason to feel this is inaccurate.

Dd is hysterical when leaving class and so teacher says we need to have a word, I take dd into the hall and she is inconsolable and won't tell me what is wrong, because she says "I did something terrible, I don't know what it is but you will be so angry with me" .

Teacher then sorts out children who aren't collected in time to the office and we go to class, dd asks to wait outside and teacher says no you must come in, dd is absolutely hysterical so I tell her to go and wash her face and ta from other class offers to look after her. The ta takes my hand and says you must tell her off as she didn't realise what she said. At that point I said of course I won't tell her off, it's obviously been dealt with. She takes dd into toilets and then her class room.

Dds class teacher tells me dd said something that was racist, I ask want it was and she said, I'm not to sure it was something about anther child, x, he is our little black boy not needing a button passed to him as he could put his face in the picture as he is black.

Ok I said, fair enough that seems that it could be unkind to the little boy and hurt his feelings, though I'm not sure this was dds intent to be racist. Can I ask how it was dealt with as dd is visibly upset, she assures me, she doesn't know but that the head obviously had to get involved because it was termed as racist. Bit she is sure it would have been delt with appropriately.

I explained I didn't feel she was coming across to well and it may be useful for me to talk to the head to gain some clarity and context as to how this was dot with as I would expect it should have been delalt with sensativly and as dd was so upset and she was unsure herself, I think I would get more information from the head.

So talk to head who explains that as it was comment regarding another child's race that could be hurtful it must be addressed. I did not disagree and expressed that dd has no concept of racism I would hope it was first most addressed in a manner that she realised it was unkind over and above anything else. The head agreed this happened but that she had to explain to dd how and why it race was an important issue here, I agreed I would do the same had I heard a similar comment, but I just did t want a seed to planted that otherwise may not occur to dd.

Anyway this is a very different explanation than dd gave me regarding, the head just shouting at her.

I explained to dd about racism and she said that's the word the other child used but the had not explained that to her, she just shouted at her for being rude and sent her back to class.

Now my concerns are the language used by the class teacher.

The fact that the head has seemingly not dealt with this in the sensitive manner as she had told me she had and dd not realising what she had done wrong.

Another child being able to march my dd to the head from a classroom and the class teacher not knowing this was happening.

Am I just seeing fault as this was handled sensitively as I would have in a way that would let my dd understand why this was not a nice thing to say.

I'd be furious and escalating this via a formal complaint, your poor DD.

I do think it's a good idea to get to the bottom of this, if nothing else so that you do know whether the school's account or your DD's is accurate.
How will you know who to believe in future ?

Your last posts seems to indicate that DD's account may have been somewhat misremembered or perhaps embellished.

Don't think it's a good idea to give children the idea that they can just say Oh I just want to forget about it now, when cracks start to appear in a prior account they have given. If you allow a line to be drawn underneath the matter now it is reinforcing the idea that problems in life can be dealt with successfully by creating an embellished or fanciful account and then simply announce you want it forgotten about when people start to query that account.

You need to know.
Are the school complete and utter fuckwits or has DD spun together a rather creative tapestry ?

I think you are right in a away cumfy however I have addressed that with dd that its important to tell the truth especially if you have been dealt with unfairly or perceive you have, as the truth will help identify where things may have gone wrong on booth parts. I did explain to her that I can't speak up for her if the version she has given me is not the whole truth.

I have also reinforced that what she has said was not a nice thing to say and why it is important to not make judgement or comment about people's colour or race.

I think I will ask to see the incident report and if they have not done one I think I will express that I wish them to do so and follow the appropriate protocol.

At the end of the day she is only 6 and with my help she has taken the correct message from this. I just think is very unfortunate that she has been so distressed and if I where to peruse the hard line with this I don't want her to be exposed as a lier as well as a racisit as I have made sure she has been given the message that the truth in the beginning may have prevented some of this distress for her and that its not reasonable for me to now question the school with a fragmented story. I just also want to allow her to move on with this as far as school is concerned and let her go to school happy on Monday.

I asked this morning if I could see a copy of the incident form Along with the schools behaviour/bullying and or ani racist policy I was met with a very frost yes from the head so have asked if it would be ok to do this tomorrow morning again met with a very frosty yes, so will see what happens from here.

I think I have to be very clear what I expect from this, so I will read what has been reported and raise my concerns that the class teacher used disparaging language and that there definition of what is termed racist may not have been very clear and so this caused upset rather than a valued learning opportunity. I will also raise that in dds perception the other little girl seemed to have an element of controle that should ultimately have laid with the teacher along with missing the opportunity to nip in the bud the opportunity she seemed to have to tell other children and that it should have been clear to all the children involved that although inappropriate what my dd said was in fact not racisit. I will see what else may be in the incident reoprt.

Thanks for everyone's perspectives on this it is nice to know I had not over reacted and am able to deal with this without making any hasty assumptions.

Enthusiatic Let us know what happens after you've spokent to the head this morning.

I hope it goes well for you and she/he understands your viewpoint on this.

When I went to see the head about my son being called a racist after sticking up for a five year old she was very apologetic. I kept calm and raised all my points without getting angry (although I was seething inside) but I did remain firm and insisted that she apologised to my son personally (which she did).

I hope you get a similar result.

I got a friendlier response from the head today, but what she is saying is still at odds from how both myself and my dd have perceived the situation. The head says dd was not upset when she talked with her and it was handled sensitively by herself. She didnt seem impressed at how the teacher reported the incident to me.

My dd was upset when the head spoke to her and another child from another class who had not known what had happened and still does not seem my dd very upset in the heads office as she passed so much so she told her mum and her mum asked me about it today.

I asked to see a copy of the incident report and policy but I came away with today was a photocopy of a plain a4 page where the teacher as wrote the incident out. So I don't know if they have followed procedure.

I told the head I wanted to put in writing to her my concerns and that I wish them to be accepted and considered and filed along side any other records they have made of the incident. I expressed I didn't want them to be conseidered in an official rout but I wanted them maintained and on record.

I have some course work to do today so I will type my concern out and present them to her in the morning.

I'm glad you got the response you where looking for blueballon.

I would almost forget about the 'racist' element and question whether there is any situation that would sanction a teacher behaving in such a shaming way with a 6 year old.

My experience is that if a teacher handles one situation so badly with shouting- they are probably handling several situation situations in the same way.

well i would not forget about the racist element tbh. Yes I believe the school handled this wrong and I think its disgusting that another pupil could remove a 6 year old to the head because she felt like it.
But sois telling a little boy that he didnt need a black button because he is black.
My DCs have been called out on account of being mixed race for years, it may not be a racial attack but when it comes down to it, she singled him out because of the colour of his skin.

I dont like that, sorry but I dont.

Im not suggesting your 6 year old is racist, clearly she just hasnt been taught that to single out a person based on the colour of their skin is unkind.

I think it is about context! she didn't say he didn't need a button because he is Blake. She said he didn't need a button because he could put his face in the picture. Slightly different, she was not excluding him on account of race, she was making a comparison. One that could be made about herself had it been a white button or one that could be made about hair colour.

The fact is, it is insensitive to make comment about another persons skin colour in a way it is not to make comment about hair colour and in a different way to body shape and that is because people have been excluded in society due to skin colour. A lesson very small children learn subtly. She has been taught to be kind and considerate to everyone and be inclusive of everyone. It would not occur to her to single someone out as a result of skin colour that is not what she has done. 6 year olds do not know every social and political difficulty and it is not particularly easy to teach them, if you are suggesting I have not done a correct job. She doesn't know may things yet.

sorry but is is completley different to hair colour.

and as i would assume you have never experienced racism in any form then you may not appreciate that being singled out for example "put your face in the picture because you are black" is unkind. and excluding.

Can you please read my post, before you been angry. I have quite explicitly expressed all of those things you are saying.

Become angry not been angry.

I am guessing your school is not very racially mixed?? I think this is part of the problem

this shall pass, but feel bad for your poor DD

While I agree that your DD didn't intend any harm with her comment, that's how a lot of racist language is perpetuated - not through malice, but from lack of thought that isn't challenged.

However, at the age of 6, this could, and should have been handled very differently. A good teacher IMO would have used it as the starting point for a discussion about race, language and discrimination with your DD, rather than treating it as something worthy of punishment.

2012 She's a Racist = 1600 She's a Witch

It's group hysteria IMHO. meanwhile real racists continue getting away with it but the school has ticked a box somewhere in some stats collation exercise and can be show to be 'actively dealing with it'.

Total crock.

What disgusts me most is your daughter being marched out of the room & to the HT by another child.

I don´t get that at all.

Is she related to someone "important" there by any chance?

There´s an element of bullying to that.

I agree and it is a comment that would not have gone in recognised by meals with had I heard her say it, but what I would expect is that she would learn from it rather come away labeled a racist with no understanding of what racism is.

Bloody auto correct, it would not have recognised by me had I heard her say it

Its not group hysteria.

I don't agree that this is how racist language is perpetuated.

Young children saying things as they see them accurately and without value judgements attached cannot possibly be racist. They might learn over time that we tend not to refer to people's skin colour at all if we can help it but that's just our adult way of managing the sensitivities and is not how 6 year olds are or should be.

We had a similar, badly handled situation in our (racially mixed) school. A particular member of staff made a complaint about a 4 year old who had made a purely factual observation about the different colours of their faces (the child's and the staff members). I know both the child and the staff member quite well. The child has been brought up with all the right attitudes but she is now, rightly, wary around this staff member and around these "issues" which she didn't know were issues before. Frankly the staff member was stupid to raise this - it only gave away her lack of understanding of child development in 4 year olds. But the school felt obliged to make something of it and the net result is not positive or enhancing at all.

I am probably wrong but sometimes I wonder if there would be a little less racism and panic about possibly being racist if we accepted that we are all different and commenting on it (unless its a taunt or a put down is not being racist) discriminating against someone because of it is racism. we are after all not colour blind, and yes children need to be taught what's appropriate and what's not but teaching them to pretend they don't notice someones skin is a different colour seems a bit OTT

This was handled extremely badly by the school. The girl was definitely bullying your DD and should NEVER have been allowed to march her to the HT.
You MUST pull them up on this.

It was definitely a comment worthy of discussion with your DD, but NOT a telling off or anything of the sort at 6.

What the class teacher said is far worse 'our little black boy' is appalling.

It seems to me from your OP that the TA was the only one who was understanding in this case.

If it were me I would put all this in writing to the HT - in an email cc'd to the governors. Once it is in writing it cannot be ignored.
Good luck.

Tantrums it will get to the point where we are all to scared to even look at each other in case it's perceived as being racist. We need to collectively get a grip and reserve the ire for the real racists, not some poor little 6 year old.

too not to