How much childcare/housework is reasonable to expect a SAH parent to do?

[addendumm]

Am getting really annoyed with DH who SAH and looks after DS 4 days a week while I work. He doesnt have a job at the moment.

How much housework is reasonable to get done during the day with a 1 year old who naps for 2 hours?

When the working parent is home how much time should they reasonably be expected to care for the child while the SAH parent has a break?

I would be interested to hear how others divide these responsibilities so I can work out if Im being unreasonable.

thinginyourlife- you seem to be making a bit of an issue of this, perhaps because of your personal experience, I don't know.

It seems to me to be incredibly petty to deliberately leave tasks such as stacking a dishwasher until your partner gets home (even if they work long hours and get home at 8 or 9pm?) when these things can easily be combined with looking after a child or two. Yes, you can dance with your toddler/ cuddle your baby AND do these things. It is, however, physically impossible for the partner who is out of the home.

Basic tidying/ laundry/ cooking, etc is part of looking after the DC anyway. A nanny would normally be expected to do these things and keep the house generally clean and tidy (not do top to toe cleans) precisely because it is part of looking after children.

"trying to artificially manufacture situations where the working partner has exactly 50% of chores left for them to do!"

How ridiculous.

Refusing to take responsibility for more than half the work doesn't mean you only do half the work.

This is about what expectations a WOHP gets to have of their spouse.

The answer is an equal relationship is that their expectations of what their partner does housework-wise shouldn't change (presuming they are fair) just because one person is not working.

That they might find a lot of stuff gets done during the day is a bonus.

But the lightening of their load is not their due as the wage earner. It's a happy side effect of the general reduction in pressure that results from fewer hours worked per household.

And there will be times when nothing much is getting done other than the basics - growth spurts, toddlers requiring g constant close supervision, children having a bad time of things, lots to organise for school/Hallowe'en/Christmas, work to do for community groups/PTA.

Getting housework done is not the job of the SAHP.

I am a SAHM and have always done all the housework and cooking - in reality it doesn't take more than an hour or two a day so I consider I have a very, very easy lifestyle - esp. since my DS started school .

I really don't understand all this angst about how long housework takes, unless I have exceptionally low standards; different if you have lots of children/pets etc but for most people housework is surely just a case of slinging washing in the machine, using a dishwasher and wiping around the bathroom (s) and doing a bit of hoovering and dusting most days.

Yes, the SAHP in this case should clearly be doing the vast majority of the housework and cooking.

What can you do to help him do the chores? Would having a list of tasks help?

At work I have things like washing bedding set as reminders on google calenda, so repeating same day every other week.

Prioritise important daily tasks - in my case I make sure at least one load of washing goes on, often try to do 2. Washing mountain seems endless.

Get him to use routines - so in the same way he would go to toddler group on the same day, same time, some tasks could be done that way, such as always put dishwasher on after breakfast. May not be energy efficient but it means things get done not left for later.

Maybe some SAHP are simply more effective than others at doing all those little household chores which make life run smoothly

See, I think most people on here disagree.

'This is about what expectations a WOHP gets to have of their spouse.

The answer is an equal relationship is that their expectations of what their partner does housework-wise shouldn't change (presuming they are fair) just because one person is not working.

That they might find a lot of stuff gets done during the day is a bonus.'

What- even if the WOHP works 60 or 80 hours a week? Even if they have a very stressful, intense, demanding job?
What about if the DC are all at school or at pre school every morning?
The WOHP is still supposed to feel that it a great bonus that some housework gets done in those 30+ free hours?

Honesty, I find your arguments bizarre and a little chippy.

Dh is sahd. Ds is in childcare one and a half days a week to give him a break. He does bulk if washing etc although I sometimes have to remind him. He keeps house very tidy and does a lot of admin. I usually get some down time in the weekend and then we play the rest by ear. I do cooking and shopping (online). We have a cleaner to do proper mopping, bed changing etc.

'The OP does not get to have "expectations" for what her adult partner gets up to during the day while he does the childcare.

But she does get to have expectations for how the home should be run when they are both there. That should be done together. And right now it is not. '

If you pay a nanny to look after your children, do you expect to come home and find out they have not even wiped down the sides after making a sandwich?

I have a good friend who's a nanny. She looks after the children, but cleans up when they do crafts, bake, when she makes them food. If they soil their clothing she washes it out, bungs it in the machine.

It's part of the job.

This person is doing none of that.

I think it is entirely reasonable to accept that there will be days when nothing gets done because of illness etc.

Just as doing a paid job outside the home might involve having time off sick. That's life.

But we wouldn't accept someone in a paid job to frequently not turn up and do their job on the grounds that occasionally they might get flu.

I also don't think it's sensible to reframe this debate as 'the SAHP should do ALL the housework!'

But surely they should do what they reasonably can? when the partner who is not physically at home can't? and surely they shouldn't expect someone to clean up after them?

I'm at home all while my husband works. Partly due to disability and partly due to not working as I don't have the language skills yet (not in the UK). We don't have any set rules of who does what. We both try to do the best we can. Some days I do everything, some days I do very little and my husband picks up the slack.

I think so long as both parties are trying their best, then whatever the arrangements, regardless of output, is good enough. The problem is when someone isn't doing their best.

When I was a SAHM I expected myself to do more work in the house than I do now that I work.

Every morning DH and I just over an hour of housework each, before our day starts. When I was a SAHM there was no need for us to do that, both of us got an extra hours sleep and during the day I did those chores that we now do in the morning. I was available to be at home for about 11 hours a day, I managed to fit in about 2 hours of housework a day and still have plenty of time for the children. That did not mean that DH did nothing, most evenings he would fill the dishwasher, mop the kitchen floor, clean a bathroom and have a quick tidy once the children had gone to bed.

"Maybe some SAHP are simply more effective than others at doing all those little household chores which make life run smoothly "

Of course they are.

Different people have different strengths. And sometimes people with certain strengths can be smug cunts about it.

But that has nothing to do with what one spouse gets to expect of another.

I find the idea repugnant that one spouse, because they earn money, gets to have set expectations of what should be done while they are out.

That makes one person the boss.

Nobody should be the boss.

I don't see how having (reasonable and agreed) expectations of what your partner does during the day is 'being the boss'!

Doesn't a sahp have an expectation that the partner who works out of the home does exactly that? If their dp started coming home at the end of the day saying 'I didn't go to work today, I went and lay in the park instead - oh, by the way, that means we'll be £80 short this week" - wouldn't that be in some way breaking an agreement they have?

If you are saying one partner cannot DICTATE to another what should be done - well, sure. But the op is not in this situation. She is doing more than her fair share and wants partner to pull their weight. It so happens that this means doing some housework.

I really don't see what the problem is. It is just part of being in an equal relationship.

When my sister's 2 boys were 6 & 8, she and DH reversed roles. She could earn in 40 hours what he had to work 60 hours to earn. Also, he could take redundancy, a small pension at 39, play football in the garden in school hols and do the house revovation DIY. He did all of that including housework, cooking, washing and ironing. And she went back to work in an office. She certainly didn't hoover at the weekends. Years later when she took early retirement, she bitterly complained to me that since then DH has not touched the hoover and expects her to do it now.

"I don't see how having (reasonable and agreed) expectations of what your partner does during the day is 'being the boss'! "

Sounds pretty much like a boss to me.

The going to the park instead of work counter example is daft.

The agreement you'd be violating by not showing up for work would be the one you have with your boss.

No fucking way would I be sitting down with DH agreeing what he got to expect me to do during the day like in some poxy annual appraisal meeting.

If he doesn't trust me to do my best when I'm at home to care for our children according to my judgement then he can find himself another wife.

Maybe one who's brilliant at doing all the little things that make life run smoothly :o

But the deal is that I do childcare. Anything else is a bonus.

Unlike some domestic goddesses on here I can't stack the dishwasher one handed while keeping my knife-obsessed toddler away from the sharp cutlery.

"for most people housework is surely just a case of slinging washing in the machine, using a dishwasher and wiping around the bathroom (s) and doing a bit of hoovering and dusting most days."

:o That's fucking loads, Ragwort!

I wouldn't be doing all that every day in a blind fit. It would be all I did.

"I think so long as both parties are trying their best, then whatever the arrangements, regardless of output, is good enough. The problem is when someone isn't doing their best."

I agree, Flamin.

It's arguable that he is doing his best during the day, although the unwiped counter tops mings even by my low standard.

But he's definitely not doing his best when they are both there.

I'd start there if I were the OP.

'No fucking way would I be sitting down with DH agreeing what he got to expect me to do during the day like in some poxy annual appraisal meeting.

If he doesn't trust me to do my best when I'm at home to care for our children according to my judgement then he can find himself another wife.'

But do you do nothing? Because even a nanny paid to mind the children cleans up after them. Would you put your child with a childminder and expect to go after work and clean up after your child, because, the minder's only job was to mind him/her and nothing else?

This set-up works when each partner is respectful of the other and doesn't take this piss.

Again, this is a person who doesn't even wipe a work surface after making a sandwich and has 3 full days off to the OP's none.

That's a piss take. So she either 'bosses' him by having a conversation about being realistic, puts up with the status quo, which isn't at all fair, or they discuss both of them working and outsourcing the childcare and cleaning.

As for knives, well, we got a magnetic strip and hung it high up on a wall.

Our son gets into everything, even now. I still have time to wipe the surface down or wash the cutting board after making us sandwiches. I don't expect someone else to do that because, well, that's not my job.

It is. We're a team. We work together.

I'm a sahm dp works, I do as much as I want, dp's not fussed he does bits too, if were expecting visitors, we have a mad rush about but that's it, we have 3 boys under 11 both entertain them on that front and it takes up a lot of time.

expat, agree.

Athing - I'm baffled as to how any arrangements in your life work. How did you decide to be a SAHM? did you consult with your partner about that at all? or just announce that's what you were doing?

I don't see that having conversations about how a family works has anything to do with 'being anyone's boss' (you do seem incredibly defensive about that, athing - is there history with you and your husband, about how things are shared between you?)

Money has to be earned, children have to be looked after, households don't run themselves, food doesn't cook itself, bills have to paid - and so on.

All of that involves the division of labour. I see that some couples may do this in a totally spontaneous and amicable way.... but I don't know any! In which case, parents need to talk and agree priorities and how to share it out. A relationship where expectations are agreed and shared is a happy one. i dunno what that has to do with board meetings, or why anyone would get angry about that.

ps I am very amused by the definition of a domestic goddess being someone who can load a dishwasher and keep their toddler away from knives.

I am a WAHP and even I can manage that! If you can't establish a 'no touch' rule' then you do the knives in the sink where a toddler can't get at them, and shove the rest in a dishwasher.

I'm ALL for doing the bare minimum - I gave my iron away five years ago and have never looked back - but come on....

Absolutely specs we do the bare minimum here to ensure we're clean and fed. I like to relax of an evening. If I left everything until after bedtime so me and dh could share it I wouldn't be able to sit down til 9.30ish and then I'd be knackered.

If I couldn't clear up with dcs I'd make sandwiches and veg sticks and stuff the night before and then just grab stuff out the fridge as and when. No need for sharp knives out or much to tidy up then. I'm lazy and just look for the easiest option though!

I wonder how single mums cope without ever being able to use a sharp knife

When I was a SATM I did 70 - 80% of the housework and we shared the childcare equally when DH wasn't in work.

I appreciate the fact that the op's dh has to look after a one year old.
However, you can bet your bottom dollar ,that if the situation was reversed and the op's dh was working, he would expect her to do all the housework and she would not get three days off to relax.
If you are a sahp, you should do most of the housework, simple as.

It takes 2 mins to put on a wash and 10 to hang it out.

30 seconds to wipe surfaces

5 mins to wash up

10 mins to order a food delivery from the supermarket.

30 mins to cook a meal

If you can't manage this whilst at home with kids god help you.
For the WOHM/D, commutes are generally stressful, being the sole wage earner is stressful, and most jobs are stressful. Being with the kids is a walk in the park in comparison and if the SAHM/D doesn't find it to be then imo they should be working instead.

Both partners need leisure time. I think the working partner should get slightly more due to higher stress.

Overall though its s partnership so if both partners are happy that is what really matters.

As your DC is still having a two hour nap I would think that was plenty of time for your DH to wipe down the surfaces, bung some washing on and prep dinner/wash up.

That way you can both sit down and relax a bit in the evenings.