To not buy a poppy

[Hippymum89]

Why is it more important to remember the death of a soldier who died fighting for the country (or so he believed) than the death of every other person who has died?
What about all the others who have died helping others? Were their lives less important? Or the little old lady who died in hospital at the age of 97, she didn't kill any Germans, or rescue people. She lived her life, but doesn't that count?
I think poppys glorify war and therefore murder, so I will not be buying one.

Virginia, you are an idiot. Do some research

I agree that poppies glorify war. OP, you are not stupid.
My major issues with the poppies is their focus on WW1 which i don't consider to be a just war, it was basically an imperialistic war which unfortunately involved a load of poor innocent people (men and women). WW2 was fought to maintain our freedom and I don't have a problem with that. However, I think overall the message shouldn't be that 'fighting is brave'. It should be that 'death is sad'. Buy a white poppy for peace maybe.

Poppies do not glorify war. They are a symbol of Remembrance.

This week I have been wearing mine and thinking lots of a dear friend who died in Afghanistan a year ago. I have been thinking of his father who has been posting heartbreaking comments and photos on his FB page in memory of his son. On Sunday no doubt I shall shed a tear, for him and for all the others, the fallen, the suffering and the healthy.

I don't agree with you OP, I think your logic is poor, but I also don't agree with the level of vitriol being directed at you. The nasty insults do nothing but shut down conversation and I'm sure a lot of the good points people have made in this thread will now be ignored because of them.

My point is that you are asking fir more than courtesy to be shown too the military than any other group. If I had broken the guidelines my posts would have been deleted. Only people responding to the op were.

It is your decision on whether you wear a poppy or not, no one says you have to, but you are completely wrong to say that wearing a poppy glorifies war. A poppy is worn as a mark of respect for the men and women who have died or been injured whilst in service.

LtEve why do the Army wear their poppies behind their cap badges? DH, and the other serving RAF members I have seen wearing poppies wear them on their jumpers or jackets, I just wonder why the Army do it differently.

I hate these debates every year. I wear my poppy with pride. I am grateful I have the choice, and I have the choice because of the men and women who have given their lives in war. I am grateful to the people who are brave enough to choose to join the Armed Forces knowing that there is a chance they could die in the line of duty.

The RBL don't just help veterans, the help serving Forces members and their families too. Maybe there shouldn't be a need for them and the Government should put up more money, but they don't. There isn't a bottomless pit to go round, so there will always be a need for charities. Give if you want to, don't bother if you don't, but do not spout such idiotic clap trap about members of the Armed Forces being murderers! They are no more murderers than you or I!

I completely agree, got a terrible reaction when I aired this opinion to my friends

That'll be because you're wrong dino. Sorry.

I feel like the men and women who die in war and their families are victims of war, but at least their families have homes, healthcare, education. basically loads more than the people in the countries we attack.

I understand there are issues around class and frountline fighting, the doctors and pilots are unlikely to be the ones who die, but all serving members of the armed forces had the choice to go and fight. I have read that around 500 service people have died in Afghanistan, more than 20,000 civilians have died. Ever single one of those deaths is a tragedy, the deaths of brithish people who choose to be there no more or less than the civilians who had the misfortune to be born cought up in a war.

Personally I feel it is wrong to remember the dead Brits without also remebering those innocent people who died at their hands.

I live in a country that has only a peace keeping presence in both Iraq and Afghanistan, I am an immigrant in this country and have spent a lot of time learning the local language with other immigrants. Many of the other immigrants are from Iraq and at times hearing their stories I am sad to say I have felt ashamed that the gouvernment that I voted in have caused such horror in these people's lives. I have known british familes who have tragically lost young members in these recent wars but their situation is a hundred times better than the people who have been displaced and traumatised.

Just came on to this thread.
What's with all the deletions? Anyway, I bought my poppy today, as I have done for years.
For remembrance, and for my wonderful Grandpa that survived the Somme after getting shot in the leg.
He died when I was about 17, that was the age he was when he fought.
Lest we forget.

LtEve why do the Army wear their poppies behind their cap badges? DH, and the other serving RAF members I have seen wearing poppies wear them on their jumpers or jackets, I just wonder why the Army do it differently

Hey Most RAF and RN wear a different uniform in barracks to 'in the dirt'. Most Army wear combats wherever. Behind the capbadges mean they can continue to be worn wherever we are - I wouldn't want a pin sticking in me if I was crawling thru the mud! It's different for officers as their capbadges are cloth, but then they've always been a different breed

At least, that's what I assume - TBH I wear it there because I am told to - I'm very obedient

I am not trying to upset people. Honestly. But can someone please tell me why, morally, people who have killed poeple in combat are not murderers. I am pro-choice btw but accept the view of some that abortion is murder. I don't see why this is different.

Sensible answers please. Not, "because I say so".

I think it is because murder is a legal term. I don't think we can say that they are not killers, it is factual that people who kill other people are killers, in the same way that people who drive are drivers.

The people who kill in combat are following orders so it is not their will that is causing the death.

To be a murderer you must have killed someone, been prosecuted, been found guilty.

A member of the forces kills only when life is in danger; his own, his comrades or the people he is protecting. It is a form of Self Defence, whether you are defending yourself or your country.

Tutt and LtEve, the Army are scruffy buggers

ethelb many people accept there is such a thing as a just war. www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/war/just/what.shtml

Sigh. Here's the link again.
www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/war/just/what.shtml

Thank you LtEve. I am chuckling about you saying officers are a different breed. DS1 wants to go to Sandhurst, he is a different breed to everyone I know!

Jenai - the one on the gate was today, he had chocolate all round his chops!

Well with reference to my post ^ my Grandpa didn't have the choice.
And the German soldier that shot him aimed for his leg, while looking him straight in the eye.
They were all young lads thrust into something they couldn't control.
Hence all my childhood stories from him where he insisted he had a wooden leg, and used to pull out splinters to prove it. I think I believed him for far too many years.
WW2 is the war that every man was conscripted too, and the Nazis were defeated,or we would be living in a totally country.
It's these boys and men that make the poppy worthwhile, I don't believe a situation like that will ever happen again.
Because, hopefully, we've learned our lessons, and for one week a year we can remember their sacrifice.

@ltevedallas thanks for the clarification. It is just the "or the people he is protecting" that bothers me. I don't want it to be "in my name"

@honeytea fair point. But do you really think if OP had come on and said members of the military are 'killerS' everyone would have said 'oh ok then, fair enough'

@abra1d I am a fairly competent theologian and I am aware of just war theory and was taught it repeatedly through my teens. Once at catholic school where we were taught no modern war could be a just war according to the just war rules, and once and an anglican school where I was taught that most British wars fulfilled the criteria. There are different interpretations and as a catholic I err on the side of caution tbh.

So do you not accept that the defence of Belgium and France in WW1 was justified ethelb?

Sorry, ethelb, no offence intended but it did seem a bit simplistic when you asked why it wasn't murder if a soldier killed someone so I responded in kind.

It is just the "or the people he is protecting" that bothers me. I don't want it to be in my name

In Bosnia my job was to protect the Serbs from the Croats from the Muslims and the IFOR and the UNPROFOR and the Aid workers and so on. Everyone was in danger from everyone else. It didn't matter to me who I was protecting, just that I was. I did that in my name, in your name, in the name of every decent person on earth that was against ethnic cleansing and the rape and murder of men, women and children. It didn't bother me who they were.

Isn't mumsnet fantastic? All posters are able to post their views and argue with each other...

Thanks to all the brave soldiers, my great grandad who died in WW2.
If Adolph had prevailed we wouldn't be able to...

Also god bless Robbie, he died at 18 in Afghanistan, he was helping defend the local town where girls were threatened going to school. He was at school with my ds.

Shame in posters who bitch.... Shame on you.