To have complained to school for showing Schindler's List to yr 9's

[jjazz]

Just that really. Dont know which parts they showed but DD was awake at 11.15 last night -upset as the scenes were still in her head. She is sensitive but not over emotional imo. she was 13 at end of August so is a 'young' year nine although the film is a 15 so none of the group would have been that age.

sashh it's not "lucky" as in winning the lottery lucky. Children born in the UK are invariably born into a position of privilege one way or another. The fact that it is a basic right to be fed,loved,not tortured doesn't change the fact that these rights are routinely ignored and children should grow up aware that other children are not so lucky as them. That is not saying it is okay that other children suffer,it's pointing out that children in a position of privilege shouldn't be sheltered and precious about life's realities.

Next it will be "it's a child's right to never ever be upset". Less than 100 years ago 14 year old boys were fighting in a war. Less than 70 years ago,14 year olds routinely left school to work. It is only in the last century people over the age of 10 have been considered children in the UK. "Teenagers" were not a recognised group before the 1950's. It serves nobody to coddle people who are young adults,not children. Least of all them.

why do we have to be shocked? Because if we lose the ability to be shocked and upset by the Holocaust, we become anaesthetised to it. And slowly, over time, many years into the future when survivors of the Holocaust have all passed away, forget. We can't ever forget.

There was a thread not long ago and some posters, late teens early 20s said they didn't know much about the war at all and that we shouldn't keep bringing it up as it was better forgotten. I was quite shocked by that tbh but I suppose people that age are less likely to meet people who experienced It first hand and so they feel quite detached from it all.

I'm in my early 20's (just) and have met people just like you describe Moomins. I have friends who have virtually no idea what has happened in the past and even less about what is happening now. Ignorance is bliss for some even now I suppose.

They should've checked with parents.

When I was in yr 7 we were shown Alien and in yr 8, Blade Runner. It was in an art lesson. My parents complained. I think schindlers list has important educational value.

My eldest ds is nearly 18, I guess he knows more about it than some due to my grandad talking to him and him coming into work at the nursing home with me.

Might it have been an edited version suitable for showing 12 year olds?

The DCs' English teacher showed this film when they were all 13ish. Parents had to sign a permission slip. They did a lot that year on genocide in general, including reading 'Night' by Elie Wiesel. I would like them to have watched Shoah instead of Schindler's List, but I am a history geek and that sort of thing appeals to me more than novels or films though I do understand a picture paints a thousand words, etc.

They also visited a Holocaust museum/resource centre and the drawbacks of the literature approach were evident there as they really didn't seem to have understood the nuts and bolts of what had happened, the chronology, what factors made the Holocaust, the big picture -- whereas if they had approached it as a historical event and not from the pov of art I feel they would have both known and understood more. As it was I felt the film had a big emotional impact on them but I am not sure they really understood the context and that was a pity.

I don't think it is possible to learn about the holocaust properly without being shocked. I think it's one of those things whereby you need to see the images/read first hand accounts to even begin to comprehend what it was like for those involved.

We are now getting to a point where there are less and less survivors of WW2 and for future generations they aren't going to have people who remember these atrocities to talk to which is exactly why we need to make sure that what has happened isn't forgotton. If that involves shocking and to some extent upsetting people with the facts then so be it.

I just asked my daughter (just approaching 16) when she went to the Holocaust Museum. She said when she was late year 9. I told her about this thread. She said that they watched parts of Saving Private Ryan in year 9. (Like the beginning bit!) I didn't know this! But it was excerpts, not the whole thing.
Sometimes you need to see something shocking at that age to really appreciate what it was like. Our children don't really have a proper concept of war other than what they may (or may not) see on the news. It was too long ago, now, to be properly relevant to them, whereas for my age-group (late 40's) we knew people close to us that were involved in wartime, and therefore those memories were still in people's minds and still 'real'.

I don't really think you have cause to complain for the school showing excerpts of this film. It was relevant to the work they were doing. Some text books have pretty graphic pictures, in my opinion.

there are enough factual programmes suitable for younger children to watch about the subject.

a film has a classification for a reason, should be stuck to especially at school.

I thought Schindler's list was a rubbish film, the subject was worthy, I agree, but the film itself was badly done IMO.

I think reading Anne Frank's diary and Janina David's books would be more interesting and appropriate, as it is through the eyes of a child that age.

Showing a film is such a lazy way of teaching IMO. And if you show a film with a 15 cert. to y9, you are way off as a teacher.

In two years time many of these children will be doing ww2 for GCSE History. They need to know something about what actually happened in Europe before then and extracts from a film presented in context by a teacher is a wholly appropriate way of doing it.

My father arrived in the UK aged 10 via Kinder Transport. He had to deal with the reality as a child; it is not in my opinion unreasonable to expect 13 year olds to start thinking about what happened to millions of people during WW2. It was real, it was factual and it cannot and should not be hidden.

It doesn't show she is immature as suggested earlier in the thread because she got upset - rather that than totally desensitised by all the violence in films and video games around theses days. She would a bit odd I would have thought if she hadn't been upset - it is an upsetting film. I remember being upset when I watched it and I was much older. And goodness, fancy wanting to talk to her mum about it

Wether the school should be showing a 15 film to 13 yr olds - personally I think not as there are so many other ways to get your point across when teaching - showing a film is lazy imo.

YANBU

Yabu. I was 13/14 (in year 9 anyway) when we first started to learn about the Holocaust and yes we were shown PARTS of Schindler's list (carefully selected by teachers). I 'enjoyed'? (can't think of an appropriate word there) it so much I got home and told my dad to go out and get me it so I could watch the whole thing. Oh and we went to Auschwitz when we were 14/15 (year 10), and that was harrowing (Schindlers list was like Barney in comparison).

Am I 'scarred for life'? Well yes in that it certainly made me incredibly grateful for all I have in life. Its very important young people learn about it and I think year 9 is the appropriate age to begin. 'Fraid its tough cookies if some kids are 'upset', this was reality for children a lot younger than them.

Sirzy said it:
I don't think it is possible to learn about the holocaust properly without being shocked.

All the people saying that permission slips should have been sent home, do you really think that `not wanting your child to be upset' is a sufficient reason for them not to learn about the Holocaust? Surely every parent would rather their child not have to learn about war and genocide? The reason they do have to learn about these things is because they are, in fact, real. I think 13 is an appropriate age. Every school student in Germany visits a concentration camp, and every Polish school student visits Auschwitz IIRC, and not at ages much older than 13.

I'm also a bit at people who seem to think that watching (serious, historical) films in school is less valid than reading books.

Schindler's List is not a very good film IMO though. Mawkish with many unnecessary dramatic touches (the girl in red, the showers at Auschwitz, the scene of Schindler leaving the factory). The book and story itself are very good.

I don't think the point is wether or not the child got upset more was the film suitable for a 13 year old - as it is a 15, clearly it is not.

I had such a good history teacher - I remember being upset when we learned about it, no films shown in those days!

Of course, it's not possible that film censors get things wrong, or that film certificates are totally arbitrary, or shock horror, that a professional, qualified history teacher be allowed to use her own judgement to decide whether her pupils are ready to see the extracts she(he) herself has chosen, is it?

I think showing appropriate films can be a useful aid to teaching. Thinking regards to the holocaust you need to see the images to get across the true horror of it all. Remember seeing as a child the real life footage of the camps and the mass graves, people just being bulldozed, the skeletal survivors - that imagery stays with you forever - those were real people, not props, not actors. Whether 13 is too young for Schindlers list, I'm not sure bit the school should definitely have got the pare t's permission. Also, there are some films that I would prefer to watch at home or on my own as the subject matter can be upsetting and I don't like an audience when I'm upset.

It has already been established that film ratings don't need to be applied in schools. They also didn't watch the whole film but selected scenes which I would assume the teacher felt where appropriate to the area they were discussing.

We watched a short clip of the film, we also did a lot of discussion and other work around the subject.

I agree the book was better than the movie which strayed into too much sentimentality regarding Schindler but it does get the message across quite well.

I have reread my post and I said that you don't have to be shocked to learn about the holocaust which is clearly bollocks! ( ) it would be impossible to learn about it without being shocked. I was trying to get across that you don't have to actual see all the ghastly details to have an understanding of what happened. You don't have to, for example, see the photos of the corpses in the gas chamber to be sympathetic.

I agree the book is better than the movie. The movie was a little sentimental which was something that Schindler wasn't. The book described his complex personality really well (I think)

It's part of the curriculum. We watched some in Yr9 too - and our teacher turned the lights out to pretend we'd all gone home at hometime and let us watch the rest then.

It isn't a nice film. It's graphic and deeply upsetting, but its historical and a very good way of teaching about the Holocaust and Schindler.