Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ignore possibly racist remarks

77 replies

frogspoon · 06/11/2012 20:37

I am currently privately tutoring a year 11 girl in mathematics.

Over the past couple of weeks I have noticed a couple of comments she has made could be considered slightly racist. A week ago she asked me about some of the other students that I taught. When I mentioned that they attended the local Jewish school, she muttered "Oh, Jews" in a negative tone (it was not what she said, but the tone in which she said it). This week we were going through some maths questions, where one contained a foreign sounding name. She made the comment "What kind of name is .....?" I replied jokingly that the book was being politically correct, to which she agreed that it was an "ethnically diverse" book in a sarcastic tone, and made air quotes.

I am a little surprised as this girl attends a relatively diverse school with a significant number of pupils from ethnic minorities. In addition she is partly Spanish, therefore has family from a different culture and speak a different language.

Am I right to be concerned, or am I just too politically correct? Was I wrong to joke that the book was politically correct? I am concerned that if I say nothing her remarks may become more overtly racist. As a tutor, who only sees her once a week, is it my place to say anything at all?

OP posts:
WorraLiberty · 06/11/2012 22:55

She hasn't spouted offensive or prejudiced views

If she had, I'm quite sure the replies on this thread would be totally different.

LastMangoInParis · 06/11/2012 22:55

Hmmm.... I think it's pushing it a bit to say that a (perceived) 'negative tone' is an 'offensive comment'.
And I don't think it's helpful to assume that it is a negative POV. Not helpful to anyone.
And I assume the child was tired too...
TBH, frogspoon, if I was in your situation, I've have laughed after her remark, and possibly said something along the lines of 'That sounded pretty strange!'

Pendeen · 06/11/2012 23:00

I trust you are an adequate maths teacher.

Just do your job and don't try to fill the time with fantasies.

LastMangoInParis · 06/11/2012 23:00

... Or what MrsDeVere said. (x-posts)

frogspoon, about 15 years ago, for the first time in my life I went to a of greater London where seemingly young people brought up there just didn't consciously meet any Jews. Some of the things they said were along those lines, not intended to offend, almost certainly not based on actively negative/aggressive attitudes, just ignorant (in the true sense of the word, I don't mean that as a put down).
Just ask her what she means, be light heated, mention that your Jewish if you want to. It doesn't have to be such a big deal, and seeing as the idea that her remark was 'racist' is very tenuous, it shouldn't be a big deal.

geegee888 · 06/11/2012 23:03

If you are that right-on, I'm not surprised shes being a bit sarcastic. I don't think she was racist. I think you are being overly aware of racism, and looking to make issues where there are none. You are there to teach her maths once a week, not to police her upbringing or thoughts. Why do you want to meddle? Why don't you just concentrate on teaching her maths, and tune out any suspicions (because thats all they are)?

kingbeat23 · 06/11/2012 23:04

Actually, I have to disagree with a lot of views here saying that it shouldn't be taken as being as anti-semetic. I have been on the receiving end of this tone of voice and because it is less easy to tell if one is Jewish or not then people's views on the religion can be somewhat skewed in your presence until they know that you are Jewish.

I once had someone gleefully tell me about the story of watching someone glue a £1 coin to the floor in a McDonald's and watching all the orthodox people trying to pick if up (completely bypassing the fact that they wouldn't be in there in the first place as they can't eat the food) until I told them that I was Jewish as well and pointed out the mistake.

OP, it depends on how you feel as how to proceed with this one. I personally would agree with Worra and let it be known that I don't tolerate ANY kind of discrimination in my presence and get on with my lesson and if it persisted then I would express my views to the parents with a condition that of it didn't stop that I would stopy services.

KRITIQ · 06/11/2012 23:23

Flatbread's point is important. Grown ups often "test the waters" by saying provocative things to see how they will play. If they get a positive or no response, they'll take that as an endorsement of their views. Children and young people do the same thing.

If you're in some position of authority with a young person (e.g. tutor, scout leader, youth worker, auntie, etc.) then you have the opportunity to engage with them, find out where the view's coming from, present alternatives. If they are parroting something they've heard from a parent or friend, they might just be saying it because they think they "should," and may not even understand what they are saying.

No one should ever, ever put up with another person's bigotry just because they are being paid to provide a service to them. I'm Shock at those who think that this is acceptable. And no, it doesn't have to be as direct as saying "I hate Jews," to be bad enough to do something about it. I also think OP you should feel the need to "come out" as a Jew, any more than you should feel you have to "come out" as a Lesbian in response to a homophobic remark, or declare a disability if someone makes a demeaning comment about disabled people. If you felt confident doing that, that's okay, but it sounds like this kind of hit you like a slap. Saying you're Jewish might give her pause for thought if she likes you, but it might also give her an "excuse" for not following your direction in future or a kind of "ammunition" to hold against you if something doesn't go well in the tutoring relationship.

Perhaps if a similar comment or response comes up in future, just ask what she means by it or why she thinks such and such. Don't be afraid to say that you find her comments/views hurtful, perhaps saying that you have a dear friend with a name like so and so or a neighbour was attacked by a person who said they didn't like such and such. It doesn't have to be heavy handed or preachy, can still be on a personal level but not leaving you feeling vulnerable.

If the situation continues to grate, and you feel it's worth the risk of losing the client, it could be worth talking to the parent(s) and explaining that you feel uncomfortable/unhappy in the situation. It could be they are unaware she is saying things like this (and might WANT to know - maybe they suspect a vengeful ex or controlling older boyfriend is planting ideas, I dunno . . . ) Of course it could be that they are card carrying members of the British Nazi Party and will sack you on the spot. If so, you'd probably not want to stay on anyhow!

Ah, and one other thing. You mentioned that you were surprised the girl held these views because she is from a mixed cultural and possibly mixed ethnic background. Unfortunately, in my experience, that isn't necessarily a guarantee that a person will be more accepting or understanding of difference in others. If they feel conflicted about their own identity, they may actually seek to deny their difference, and one way of doing that is being very negative about other folks who are "different," as well.

Best of luck whatever happens.

suburbophobe · 06/11/2012 23:56

Haven't read the whole thread but I would call someone up on it if I thought they were making a racist statement. (How could I not, having a biracial DC).

But I would do it in a non-confrontational way.

If she is 11, she is obviously getting these attitudes at home.
No harm - important actually! - in nipping it in the bud and letting her know that other people have different viewpoints.

suburbophobe · 07/11/2012 00:06

Sorry, got her age wrong, year 11, not 11 years.

suburbophobe · 07/11/2012 00:22

greater London where seemingly young people brought up there just didn't consciously meet any Jews. Some of the things they said were along those lines, not intended to offend, almost certainly not based on actively negative/aggressive attitudes, just ignorant

What a cop out.

I've never met an Australian Aboriginal "consciously".
Certainly wouldn't make offensive statements about them.

Valdeeves · 07/11/2012 06:50

I am guessing neither you nor her have much exposure to ethnic diversity? For example in some parts of Britain like Birmingham or London kids just wouldn't react to names which don't have their origins in Britain. For example my previous job, by far the most common name was Muhammed.
The way to handle this is just ask what she means? At sixteen she doesn't need a lecture or browbeating. She just needs someone to gentle question her as they would any other adult. So she says "oh jews" in a funny tone - you say "why did you say "Oh Jews" that way? Have you any Jewish friends?" Whatever she says you don't have to correct - you let your questioning or a confused expression open her mind to the fact that something she said needs thinking about.
I know it's not a direct challenge to rascism but at that age direct challenging, in that context will just make her stroppy.

Valdeeves · 07/11/2012 06:51

You aren't in a classroom where bouncing off her peers would help.

Valdeeves · 07/11/2012 06:55

If you can see it isn't making her question at all - that's when I'd probably really challenge her. I think your politically correct comment made her think you were complicit. You should have just said, this book represents Britain more as a whole - not just the pocket we live in.

diaimchlo · 07/11/2012 08:04

This teenager made the comment "oh Jews" and you assessed her tone as negative..... please remember her age and the changes she is going through, quite often we can misinterpret what youngsters are saying by judging their tone of voice.

IMHO political correctness can be taken too far, to the point of stupidity in some cases where children's nursery rhymes are changed because they can be taken as offensive. ie: Ba Ba Black Sheep changed to Ba Ba Rainbow sheep. Anyone come across a multi coloured sheep???????

Racism is horrendous and should be policed and punished, but looked for in every comment someone makes.

AmberLeaf · 07/11/2012 08:09

I have never heard anyone sing 'baa baa rainbow sheep' and I have worked in nurseries in inner London.

Think they made that one up.

WilsonFrickett · 07/11/2012 09:15

The Baa Baa rainbow sheep is tosh. I've never heard anyone sing it and my DS and various friends' DCs all live in very multi-racial environments. I just don't recognise this 'political correctness' thing as anything except a Daily Fail construct tbh. We live in a diverse country. Think about it, reflect it, don't offend anyone in it and get over it.

Mrsjay · 07/11/2012 09:21

I am more shocked at your reply to be honest about being pc and air quoting that is a bit racist is it not so a slightly exotic name in a book is " PC" so as not to offend the minorities Hmm

AmberLeaf · 07/11/2012 09:44

I think it was the girl that did the air quotes Mrsjay.

Mrsjay · 07/11/2012 09:50

Oh ok I am sorry I misread she has obviously seen that from elsewhere she is 11

but I do think you shouldn't have mentioned it being P C it was just a name in a book no need to point out pcness imo. next time if she says anything next time point out that she is being rude about people and get back to the maths,

quietlysuggests · 07/11/2012 09:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WilsonFrickett · 07/11/2012 09:57

She's NOT 11 - she's year 11.

lljkk · 07/11/2012 10:07

I think you're reading too much into 2 tiny comments.

The negativity on "Oh Jews" could have been "Shit, what is it I'm supposed to remember in RE about Jews? What do they believe? Is it the same as Mulsims? Why is Miss Hoberdashy [RE teacher] so mean? What a fat cow! Why can't I remember anything!? Why is my brain so useless?! I'm going to fail everything. Everybody hates me because I'm so fat and ugly. And Tony in English, does he really like me? Because Mama hates Tony. Oops, concentrate on maths now." All in the same microsecond.

I would ask her directly, say you're Jewish & you hope she doesn't have any bad feelings about Jewish ethnicity. She probably won't even remember the previous conversation.

LastMangoInParis · 07/11/2012 11:32

superbophobe perhaps my post wasn't very clear.
The young people didn't make offensive statements about Jews.
They were working on a play that led the group to discuss the Second World War and concentration camps. The very word Jew seemed to make them uncomfortable.
I told them about some of my family and friends who left Europe in the 1930s to escape Nazis and survive. They seemed interested in this, and I think it might have been a first for them to connect that history with people in their everyday lives. (It's interesting to me that they seemed more uncomfortable saying 'Jew' than saying 'Nazi'. This was the perception that I and my colleague (Jewish) had. Perhaps other people would have perceived the situation differently.)

My point is that if you have a sense that a child or young person might have a negative view of another culture or ethnic group or that they're uncomfortable talking about that group, but they haven't in fact made offensive comments then it's probably a good idea to address the issue without getting angry with them or making them more uncomfortable than they already are. That's if you actually care about combatting racism. If you're just spoiling for a fight or want to feel righteous then it's a different issue.

And yes, the 'baa baa rainbow sheep' thing is bullshit made up by 1980s tabloids who wanted to trash the 'loony left'. Seems that some people fell for it, unfortunately.

AlienRefluxovermypoppy · 07/11/2012 11:58

No, I don't think it's your place, even if she was being racist, which I don't see to be honest.

UptoapointLordCopper · 07/11/2012 12:59

It is EVERYBODY's place to combat racism.

Ask "what do you mean" and "why do you say that". That, after all, is the essence of mathematics.

Swipe left for the next trending thread