To be annoyed when people think communism is bad?

[waitingimpatiently]

Not 'communism' in places like Cuba and Korea which has some sort of dictator, which a lot of people appear to think is real communism.

Why does there seem to be this ignorance?! Do people not research the things they believe in?! Karl Marx would be turning in his grave if he saw the state of some of these 'communist' countries. Surely, the images of heaven (that I see in jehovahs witness leaflets, where everyone is happy and eating breakfast with lions etc) is a communist idea! Everyone is equal, no money, no state, no class system.

I get that the sort of communism we see can be awful, but real true communism isn't bad at all!

I get that it hasn't worked in practice So, on what basis exactly have you decided that "real, true communism isn't bad at all"?

isn't heaven a communist place? It's also entirely fictional.

Your argument is not well thought out.

"Trading in salt is different to using modern-day money as salt has an actual value"

Value expressed as what, exactly?.... Oh yes... a unit of currency.

I expect it's because the ideal of actual communism is everyone working together happily as a group for the benefit of all members within that group, all sharing resources and not having a few profiting from the rest and keeping them down.

I have to say, it is a nice idea Can anyone say that it is not a nice idea? Whether or not it could ever actually work, the idea of everyone being equal and working together and sharing resources and contributing to the maintenance and development of a fair and equal society is a lovely idea!

Technology is a really interesting example of innovation which happens for its own sake.

Companies such as Microsoft operate within the traditional capitalist system. They create something, and then sell a license to use their product.

The actual product in reality simply is a specific series of 1s and 0s (as is any computer program, at its base). When Microsoft sells a program, it's selling a copy of a specific pattern of 1s and 0s.

They have been very successful doing this.

However there is debate within the developer community about whether you should be able to sell licences for programs at all. An increasing number of people believe that programs represent knowledge, rather than a product, and that knowledge is something which should be shared not sold.

Developers who believe this build and license software as "open source software". Open Source software is built collaboratively, by people dedicating their time and skills to the project for free. At first the business community were suspicious of Open Source software because of worries about things like quality control, and often ugly or difficult to use user-interfaces (the bits which you see as a user). However as the Open Source community has matured and developed, it's is becoming much more widely accepted by mainstream companies, many of which are now contributing to Open Source projects themselves as a matter of course.

You will have used open source products. Many websites (probably this one) live on servers powered by open source software. Android, Wikipedia, Firefox and WordPress are all Open Source for example, and were created and given away for free.

If you're interested in this sort of thing, have a read of this short essay by Sci-Fi write neal Stephenson, which describes Open Source better than I can!

ShellyBoobs of course commerce has had a lot to do with the development of the the internet as we know it, but equally it would not exist in its current form without the efforts of many, for free.

The majority of webservers are powered by open source software for example.

Many of the programming languages (e.g. PHP) used to make the web are open source.

I must go play with DS now, but I'll come back to this later!

Bill Bryson hypothesises in "Notes from a Small Island" that communism failed because it was attempted in the wrong country. He reckons that the British would have made it work.

I quote:

"All those things which are necessary to the successful implementation of a rigorous socialist system are, after all, second nature to the British. For a start, they like going without. They are great at pulling together, particularly in the face of adversity, for a perceived common good. They will queue patiently for indefinite periods and accept with rare fortitude the imposition of rationing, bland diets and sudden inconvenient shortages of staple goods, as anyone who has ever looked for bread at a supermarket on a Saturday afternoon will know......

They have a natural gift for making excellent jokes about authority without seriously challenging it, and they derive universal satisfaction from the sight of the rich and powerful brought low."

There is more, but I'm typing this on my phone and my fingers have cramped.

The theory of communism is great, we should strive for societies to be more like that. It's sad to write it off because some people are greedy. Let's try to be less greedy.

It doesn't work as human beings are involved.

I am a capitalist. I am rich. i live in a tax free country. I get annoyed when people tell me I don't have a choice. That's why I don't live in a communinist country and avoid socialists (apart from my champagne socialist Guardian loving family whom I love regardless).

Do people not research the things they believe in?

How would people be able to conveniently rearrange their prejudices to suit themselves if they were compelled to be rational ?

This is why we have "belief"; officially sanctioned irrationality.

"It doesn't work as human beings are involved."

Which do you mean, communism or capitalism?

I am yet to see a capitalist system which "works".

The people posting here may be comfortable, or rich even, but that is directly because of other people living and working in near-slave like conditions so we can have cheap consumer goods. Our insatiable appetite for burning oil to power our consumer lifestyle is putting the future of the whole human race at risk.

Power is increasingly being consolidated in the hands of a tiny wealthy elite, not answerable to anyone. The very basis of the system is amoral by design.

Is that a system which works?

Aufanaie - if a person writes down their knowledge in a book they can sell it - no-one owns the words but the author puts them in to a particular order - so why can't a web developer or software bod sell the "knowledge" having written the software

Additionally websites such as this earn money by advertising so someone is paying for it just not the users

I generally mean that any idealism is great whether it's communism and share the wealth or capitalism and a society which follows those ideals until you involve the fact that humans are not ideal - you get greed, selfishness, power and corruption whatever happens - it is human nature

Show me a country where communism works, and I will happily go and live there

The same could be said for capitalism, of course, which is a dismal failure for the vast majority of people on the planet.

Value expressed as what, exactly?.... Oh yes... a unit of currency.

No, you're mixing up use value and exchange value. Salt has both; money only has the latter.

maddening, no one is forcing developers to create open source software, they are doing it because they want to!

Marx's theories stated that violent revolution against the wealthy was needed, and that during the dictatorship of the proletariat all non-communist ideas would need to be suppressed.

I disagree and hate the idea of that.

How funny that everyone starting talking about animals.

Communism only works if people can't escape from it. So it's a nice idea that it doesn't have to have a dictator, but unfortunately, de facto, it does. So you are very unreasonable to be annoyed by the fact that lots of people don't like that.

Also the lions. Yes. No. Don't know.

Which is great and their choice

I mentioned it because people were equating capitalism with innovation and open source is a great example of contemporaey innovation not driven by the desire for material reward.

*contemporary!

Communism would never work because there are people like me, lazy. Everyone would have to work for the world to keep turning, food to be available. But some people would work less than others, why should they get the same? Some people have a lot more ambition than others, are they supposed to just suppress that and dillydally along with people like me, happy to sit back.
The idea of communism is great, everyone is equal and treated fairly but in reality people aren't all the same and don't treat each other the same. IMO it is human nature that stops communism from ever working, both all the good bits and the bad bits. The greed and the laziness, selfishness etc. but also the people who are amazing, help others etc. should be rewarded.

aufaniae, interesting you use microsoft as example. Bill Gates's idea has actually translated into some great and real health initiatives for Africa. Fingers croses Melinda gets her wish to wipe out malaria ...