To be annoyed when people think communism is bad?

[waitingimpatiently]

Not 'communism' in places like Cuba and Korea which has some sort of dictator, which a lot of people appear to think is real communism.

Why does there seem to be this ignorance?! Do people not research the things they believe in?! Karl Marx would be turning in his grave if he saw the state of some of these 'communist' countries. Surely, the images of heaven (that I see in jehovahs witness leaflets, where everyone is happy and eating breakfast with lions etc) is a communist idea! Everyone is equal, no money, no state, no class system.

I get that the sort of communism we see can be awful, but real true communism isn't bad at all!

I hardly think that heaven is a good example of communism that works.

Unless you've been there and have video proof it's like that?

I, personally, think its probably closer to the way Robert Heinlein describes it in Job: A Comedy of Justice where some humans are equal but angels are more equal than anyone...

To be honest the experiment worked better in Cuba than most other places. Largely down to Fidel Castro. Don't believe the western hype.

TRue communisim corrupts people and somebody always suffers because of it, usually the lowly people who are been dictated to by well a dictator, ask the chinese how their comunisim is working out for them or maybe the alcoholic homeless russians who couldnt get work if they are equal or not,

Shall I believe the thousands of Cubans who have fled to Florida? Or ate they are brainwashed by the Western Hype as well?

Not to mention that on practical level there have to be people who voluntarily come an empty your bins and septic tanks, voluntarily go into mines and work on oil rigs so you can have your comforts. It's not going to work in real life (at least until we've got robots to complete all these unpleasant tasks for us).

" When it comes down to it most people, despite what they spout, make decisions that work for them rather than the greater good."

I couldn't agree more.
ime, people care only up to the point where something starts to impact on them, then you find they don't care so much any more. When you have to choose - you choose you.

Anyone who says they wouldn't - is lying.

No one said it was a paradise. People want to be free, they want to be wealthy. They want to join their families. They should be free to do so.

However, are they any different than the thousands of Mexicans that try to get to the US every day?

but isn't heaven a communist place?

Well if it was real wouldn't God be a (benign) dictator?

Communism in practice, ie in how everyday people live works fairly well in Cuba (brilliant healthcare, somewhere over 90% literacy, a musician is treated the same way as a doctor) but it doesn't generate enough wealth to support itself, hence the opening up of the island to tourism once the USSR collapsed and stopped sending aid.

Foreign hotels, for eg pay market rate wages directly to the govt, who skim off the extra and then pay the standardised rate to the employees. However these jobs are highly sought after because they give access to American dollars. (disclaimer, it's a few years since I've been there)

The idea of communism is a great one. No one more important than the next, equality for all etc. but in practice people are selfish buggers and are out for themselves and so the system collapses.
George Orwell's Animal Farm is a great book to read on this subject.

Animal farm puts it perfectly. People are inherently a greedy species.

Or - what emandlu said

I think Socialism is a happy medium.. and there are quite a few examples of great socialist coutries..eg sweden.

I don't think you're being unreasonable.

Castro and Guevara had good motives/ ideals for Cuba. Guevara maybe more so. Even if they did have some dodgy methods at times. Their supporters would say that life in Cuba for the majority of people improved after the previous regime was overthrown. It's certainly got the highest life expectancy in the world so things like healthcare and education has improved.

YABU... there's a reason it doesn't work in practice and that's because human beings maybe communal animals but we also like a hierarchy. Some will always want to be leading the way and others are content to follow along. Where hierarchies don't exist or are abolished, we go out of our way to create new ones. Human beings even invented deities as the ultimate hierarchy to be honoured and obeyed. As individuals we are not identical so any system that attempts to engineer homogeneity & uniformity is bound to fail. So communism may be nice in theory but that's all it'll ever be

I think Communism is a lovely idea on paper, but wouldn't want to live with it in practice. I get the appeal of equality, but it attempts to enforce total uniformity which frankly makes life boring.

ANd then the fact that no matter what, someone has to be holding the reins and leading. Ivariably this leads to corruption. Communism leaves little room for individuality, or individual expression and even if you did not end up with a dictator oppressing the majority I think you'd still have a not very happy populace as it's natural to express individuality.

Oh lol cross posted with Cog. I think you worded it more clearly than I did though!

Even in heaven you would have saints, martyrs, disciples, archangels,angels and people. So not equal ?

Also, try running your house as a communist case study - just as Stalin neglected schools and hospitals in favour of heavy industry, wouldnt your family neglect the ironing in favour of tidying up? Don't know what point I am actually making........ :)

Cuba would be a pretty nice place to live if the US would lift the blockade and trade embargo. Castro is a bit of a drag, but he wouldn't still be in power if the US hadn't behaved the way they did. Both sides have become entrenched in paranoia, and there is no need for it post-Berlin wall.

It is a lovely ideal. I was just going to say what viva said about Cuba having the best healthcare in the world and highest life expectancy and everyone's equal. Until the crack trade gets involved but that's not the point. I love the idea o communism and trading skills for good ect and everyone being equal, but some people don't care about the rest ( think Tories) and the weak the community they only care about themselves so it wouldn't ever really work.

"The human race at the moment is too greedy and selfish for it to ever work."

I'm not sure that's true.

Arguments about political systems often come down to what people think is humanity's true nature. If you think we're naturally cooperative you're likely to have socialist leanings, if you think we're naturally greedy then you're likely to have right wing leanings.

I don't think either is the "true" state of humanity. Personally I think what defines us is our adaptability.

Humans the world over live within a huge range of different political systems, social traditions and weather climates. The humans themselves don't differ that much, under the surface. What makes the difference is the cultures we're born into.

I did read some research about the more personal responsibility we have the less happy we as a whole are...

I agree with nocake ,I thought that was what everyone thought about communism these days?

OP - Animal Farm beautifully illustrates why communism cannot work "all animals are equal but some are more equal than others". That is the way of communism.

In communist countries you can't have an opinion or think or do what you want! We are humans, and we all have our own thoughts and feelings. we are greedy, we want to excel ourselves to achieve and earn more. and for that reason, communism will NEVER work.

I'm a socialist at heart (if not head) and even I think communism pretty much sucks. To paraphrase Winston - a free, liberal economy is the worst sort of economy. Except for all of the others that have been tried.

And do you actually know anything about Karl Marx?! He was the worst communist, like, ever! He totally sponged his entire adult existance of his rich mate Friedrich Engels. Do as I say, not as I do...