To have these thoughts about Autism?

[MrsCantSayAnything]

I know so many people now who have a child on the spectrum. About 6 children in DDs school that I know of because their parents have told me....so obviously there will be more whose parents I am not on chatting terms with....my best friends son is showing strong signs and my own nephew is being assessed.

There must be some reason for this? So many children being affected. Another friend of mine says she thinks her child is on the spectrum and talks about poisoning from mercury.

I haven't learned about why she thinks this...but I do notice that there has been a growth in cases...why? Is it due to some kind of Mercury thing or can it really be that the professionals are better at noticing the symptoms now? If that's the case then why didn't we have all these children on the spectrum in the past...or did we?

There are threads on here about ASD all the time....I just feel sad I guess....so many DC that I know are affected and I feel there must be something to blame.

yes but I would say that would be outweighed by not being able to speak, must be so frustrating..(of course I don't know if your DS can speak but if he is extremely severe I am assuming he can't).

My friend who is doing a lot of research dude to her DS being on the way to a DX, found a video on youtube of a 14 year old girl who hd been totally unable to communicate but suddenly began writing on the computer and talking that way...amazing to see...she could share her feelings, fears and thoughts on life.

she explained why she banged her head on the floor and how she couldn't stop it...has anyone else seen that? I can't remember her name now!

She says she feels like any other teen girl, ith the same thoughts and hopes and that she's going to change people's perception...and one day she plans to get married, have a career and maybe DC of her own. Very inspiring girl.

He can speak, in fact he's been typing msgs on mumsnet the last few days ( never did find out who meany steve was ) sadly his speech is very much echolaic, he doesn't have the comunication skills to go with it.

Another child in the family is completely non verbal because of her autism but has excellent communication skills, she gets her point across very well using a mixture of pecs, pointing etc and makaton.

No one child or adult with Autism is the same eh.

Yes, they are all different

My DD cannot communicate well but we hope she will some day :)

My friends son appears verbal but echolalic....he's a dear and very bright but it's like there's only a part of him on show iyswim.

Glad you found the link interesting aufaniae.

I have to say I'm slightly uncomfortable with your reference to high profile people from the past past who may have had autism to point out that it's been with us for a while at least. It seems clear that the character traits in question have been around forever, but the social need/urge/whatever to pathologise them hasn't. Retroactively diagnosing someone with a condition that didn't conceptually exist at the time don't sit right with me.

Sorry, this is fairly off topic, but can anyone tell me is there any advantage to being diagnosed as an adult? I've thought for years that I was on the spectrum (and actually DH thinks we both are) and have scored highly on a number of online tests (not conclusive, I know). I've learned to cope with day to day life, more or less, but my comfort zone is extremely limited; new situations and new people flummox and terrify me. I'm worried that it will affect my kids, primarily because our social circle is limited to DH's and my immediate family (and to be honest, we don't see DH's that often, I think they find us odd and hard work). If I got a diagnosis now, what would happen?

I have to say I'm slightly uncomfortable with your reference to high profile people from the past past who may have had autism to point out that it's been with us for a while at least. It seems clear that the character traits in question have been around forever, but the social need/urge/whatever to pathologise them hasn't. Retroactively diagnosing someone with a condition that didn't conceptually exist at the time don't sit right with me.

I get what you say, but autism/aspergers didn't just appear overnight.And I don't think anyone could/would say these people has autism/asd for definite.But it is possible.

My DD is aspie, I am probably quite high on the spectrum and DH definitely is.

DH is also an RMN and worked in a psychiatric hospital where people were misdiagnosed with all sort of conditions before it became much easier to dx ASD. Some of these people were there for years and probably a few of them were actually autistic rather than had some severe mental health conditions. All these hospitals have thankfully closed down now.

autism/aspergers didn't just appear overnight

The character traits now associated with autism / AS didn't, of course, but the diagnostic labels can be clearly dated.

^sorry, I don't mean "character traits", I mean neurological ones.

I used to research autism, in a follow up study where people with ASD had been tested 7 years previously and were being tested again. What struck me is the massive change that had occurred in a lot of those people. Quite a few of the boys, in particular, had been non-verbal, aggressive, with extreme behaviours in the first part of the study and by the second part of the study were leading pretty much normal lives, albeit still with difficulties in social situations. One particular boy was especially remarkable. He was seen by an ed psych at 4 at which point he was classed as "severely autistic." The study engaged with him at 13, at which point he was classed as "High functioning autism," and at the time of the follow up he was living independently at university, ran a group for people with Aspergers and apart from a little oddness in how he speaks and relates to people you would never know he had had any difficulty in life. In times gone by he would have been seen as a child who had a very tough start in life but who, with loving parenting (as his parents were amazing) turned it around and made a great life for himself. I don't doubt that his diagnoses helped in the sense that he got access to extra help, and it perhaps made his parents more willing to go the extra mile for him, but essentially the diagnoses were inaccurate, unless one concedes that "severe autism" can be cured.

What I'm trying to say with all that is that I think today we are far more aware of what is "normal" and "abnormal" in development and sometimes we are very quick to label something as a "disorder" when in fact it's a different way of functioning that requires a different way of relating to and teaching the child. Recognition of that isn't a bad thing, and I'm pleased people with ASD do get extra help and support. But we have to be really careful about seeing autism and other disabilities as completely limiting. People with ASD change and grow just as much as anyone else, albeit perhaps on a different path. I am in favour of the diagnosis as a vehicle for a child to get extra help but I am wary that it can limit a child as much as help them.

I know that there's no data to substantiate a 'rise' in autism per se, just better diagnosis, but it still does appear to me that more and more children are being diagnosed and not simply because people are better at recognising it. I really don't know.

Having said that, I think, in decades gone by, that any child that had significant behavioural problems would never have been expected or accommodated in any mainstream school and would immediately have been in a special school/unit, meaning that contact would be more limited. Also, for those that were 'odd'/'quirky' - I'm guessing that these behaviours were modified by beating/caning/bullying. An ex of mine is high-functioning autistic - super bright, poor social skills. He was sent to boarding school from seven years old and credits it with helping him adapt to real life, more so than he would be able to, if he'd have been left to his own devices. He claims that the bullying did him good and he learnt how to conform sufficiently to get by in life.

SomeOne, my brother was diagnosed as an Aspie in his early 20s, after he went to stay with a Uni pal whose father is an SEN educational psychologist and recognised some classic signs in him. The outcome has mainly been psychological relief for him and our family: he doesn't feel like a 'weirdo' and confused as to why people get exasperated or upset with him, for our parents, they have released the guilt that they parented him badly to make him 'odd' and for me and my sister, we've realised that all the times he was thoughtless and hurtful, demanded family time revolved around his obsessions and interests, etc., were not him deliberately being nasty to us or a sign he hated us, and so on. He also revealed he can't read facial expressions and thought people were trying to plack tricks on him talking about certain feelings, something none of us knew, although it explains why he could often be cruel and uncaring, so he feels less confused and resentful too, and has done some work (with his friend's father) on learning about facial expressions.

My sister is doing her PhD on the social history of ASD. Much of what she has discovered is what people have already said, but this is it in a nutshell (incidentally, we also discovered that my bro was confused by sayings like that and he's learning to work them out too!): people would usually be kept at home out of sight of the rest of the community or locked away in institutions. Those with Asperger's generally went to school and so on eith their peers, but were often seen as a little strange. Aspie girls got a particularly hard time in the past, as females were expected to be very emotional and empathic, etc., and as they weren't, they were often diagnosed as morally corrupt or imbecilic (nice) and locked up in asylums. One interesting fact about Aspie boys in the past is that society and the school system was actually quite supportive of them: stiff upper lip and never showing, discussing or reacting to emotion, everyone thinking and believing the same, then at school, logic and processing and subjects like Maths and Science being seen as superior worked hugely in their favour. The British Empire depended on personal and collective characteristics that match many ASD traits (sadly, the less desirable ones, such as not viewing different people as real in the same way you and people like you are).

I have one cousin diagnosed as an adult, two more who should have been, and am pretty sure both my brother and father are on the autistic spectrum.

They swing from very intelligent and successful (if lacking in social skills) to being the troublemakers and chucked out of school early - nothing in between.

I think that people with ASD who are bright and get interested in school early on can be successful - and so aren't necessarily diagnosed, whereas those who struggle in school get labelled as troublemakers; in the old days they would have ended up in menial jobs or in jail, now they are more likely to get a diagnosis and help.

And it's not curable - but people can learn to live within society, to comply to "the normal rules", and as they mature kids on the autistic spectrum learn much more self-control and how to appear to fit in.

In the US, the "cures" are either due to too-quick-misdiagnosis or to wishful thinking. Or to the fact that many children improve their behaviour as they mature.

There is evidence of autism even from way back to the depth of our very disturbing history.

Have you read about 'changelings'?

These children were taken by fairies at night and replaced by a fairy pretending to be human because human babies were nicer.

This correlates with children on the spectrum who appear fine until they are around 18 months, older for some, then suddenly lose their skills.

These children were treated appallingly back in the day, even put on a shovel and held over a fire to make the 'fairy' shoot up the chimney so the human child could come back.

When things got slightly more humane the children were branded 'slow' and some were even sent away to live in homes because the parents could not deal with the shame.

I think it's definitely more diagnosing and understanding now. Which is very much a good thing.

I would also say it's down to better awareness. When I was at school there where weird kids, odd kids, stupid kids, loners, bad kids, boffins etc. there was never anyone with dyslexia, ADHD, autism, apsergers syndrome becuase the medical profession didn't know as much in the 70's and there have been huge advances in the last few decades.

There may well be something about the effects of all the additives and preservatives used in the food industry, and other industries too, but I'm not qualified to assess that.

The current trend in education is to diagnose all learning problems. I had never heard of ODD (oppositional defiance disorder) until a few years ago, now I have several children I teach, who would previously been described as difficult or naughty with ODD.

Autism is a spectrum and we are diagnosing more very high functioning children with it. Which is a good thing I think, because if we get why kids have issues we can work to help them overcome and achieve.

If a child is naughty or odd or difficult you pull your hair out. If they have ASD or a language difficulty or specific learning need you can employ strategies to work with them.

My school exclude far fewer children than they did a few years ago when I started teaching and I think greater awareness of childrens learning needs has a lot to do with this. Its got to be good.

I too think its down to better awareness and diagnostics?

I think also that people in general will see more children with ASD in their childrens schools due to lack of special schools now [although there are of course still some]

I definitely have memories of children I went to school with who were quite possibly on the spectrum [myself included]

My son is autistic and there are a few older family members who probably are/were.

fuzzpig and anyone else that has experience; if you wouldn't mind sharing, how have you come about being diagnosed as an adult?

I don't believe autism is caused by vaccines [although I think some children may suffer some sort of vaccine damage] I knew my son was different from birth, I go with the theory that it is genetic.

oxfordbags your point about more 'traditional' schooling suiting Aspie traits certainly rings true for me. DS1 is diagnosed high-functioning ASD and has a lot of classic Aspie traits that would fit in perfectly with a more rigid school system (memorising long lists of facts, love of maths, science and cartography, much happier working quietly by himself than having to collaborate in a group, likes a fairly rigidly structured and predictable day etc). I definitely think that 50 years ago he would just have been seen as a bit shy or odd. Given that he is growing up in a society where interpersonal skills, team work etc are now seen as really important and where there is an almost constant stream of sensory (over)stimulation, he does struggle at times, but many of the things that we put in place to help him cope (minimal out of school activities, lots of time outdoors in quiet natural environment, predictable routine, no cinema trips, ;imited exposure to very busy or loud places etc) would have been (I think) just part of a standard childhood for many kids in the past.

I've been to a couple of training sessions where it has been stressed that school is what makes ASD children display challenging behaviour - they aren't difficult school is the problem - and its very true. Current emphasis on group work is a nightmare for so many children.

My great uncle, who has a collection of bus timetable stretching back at least 20 years because 'you never know' and could spend hours discussing various routes between our house and his, but struggled with any other conversation, did brilliantly in school in the 1930s and 40s.

Totally agree with Dora - my autistic spectrum son has had a horrendous time at junior school. The lack of structure, enforced cheeriness and group work was really difficult. Despite being a very good reader group reading was a nightmare for him.

Now he is at secondary school things are a lot better, proper structure, interesting subjects and though there are still hurdles feeling very positive.

My dad and brother are definitely on the spectrum - they have both been very successful. I am probably on the spectrum as well, bit trickier being a female aspie. All that enforced social small talk and interest in appearance makes me feel panicky.

Is that Carley fleishman op, I am reading the book on her

Yes Piglet what an amazing girl she is. She will change things I think. She's non verbal but can now communicate....how amazing for her and her parents.