not to contribute to the Shoebox Appeal

[teamboleyn]

because it has a Christian message 'attached'? I have nothing against Christianity but can they not do a charitable act without having an ulterior motive?

After learning the truth about OCC I donate to Refuge for families in the UK

link

I too emailed DC school with my concerns about OCC. Waitng to see what happens this year

how do you explain your objections to your young children who just want to fill a box like all their friends?

I'm in a quandry about this, because DS1 is in reception and for the first time, we've been given one of these fliers. I deeply disagree with most of what OCC/SP stand for and I don't want to support them. I also disagree with shoebox campaigns generally , in terms of wasted resources, token gestures and the 'wrong' sort of aid. However, I can understand that it's a good way for children to start learning about altruism, and that they'd get a lot of fun and insight into other peoples' lives as they help look for things to fill the box.

If DS1's teacher pushes this in class and he starts to feel left out, I'm going to be very angry, and will probably cave in and do one with him. Perhaps I should try and forestall this and have a word with the school staff, and see just how this initiative is promoted in class.

Reshape - I'd complain to the school (maybe with a letter similar to the one someone put earlier on the thread, pointing out the problems for the school in promoting a church with an evangelical anti-muslim agenda), and also mention my concerns to other parents - most of them are probably unaware of what OCC actually gets up to.

Then I'd encourage my DC to do something else charitable, like find some toys to donate to the charity shop, or go and choose a new toy to donate to one of the local appeals - our local paper runs something a bit closer to Christmas where they collect toys for local disadvantaged kids - or find an alternative shoebox collection in your area.

I really hate the peer-pressure aspect of the OCC thing.

At the risk of sounding like some kind of charity do-gooder :o (sorry), but some Womens Aid refuges need clothes at this time of year. I work in partnership with some of clients, and many women and kids leave in the clothes they stand up in.Some don't have warm winter clothing eg jackets,trousers etc.So might be worth contacting your local agency to see if they need good condition stuff. Until their benefits are sorted they cannot even afford charity shops.

Also check with your local agnecy that deal with young homeless people or kids that have been through the care system. With the benefit cuts for under 25's, some of them cannot afford winter stuff from Primark.

Just a thought.

The peer pressure is a pain Reshape. Ds1 is in Y1 so it's a bit easier for him to understand. If his school takes part this year, I'll explain why his dad and I don't support the charity and offer him a choice (of sorts). If he's desperate to do the shoe box, I'm happy for him to use his pocket money to make one up (we're not including a donation). Otherwise, he can choose (and I'll buy) a toy to include in the local collection for children spending Christmas in hospital or residential/social care or something similar.

Doodle I think you'll find people have looked into this and that literature is handed out with the boxes.

YANBU Franklin Graham is a bigot (and so was his father Billy Graham) I would not be willing to contribute to an evangelical charity, which is why I don't donate to the Salvation Army. Instead I'll give my money to another children's charity.

Marking... Will be back...

Samaritan's Purse/OCC is very definitely an evangelical organisation, and if you know that and don't mind, then there isn't a problem.

In their own words (from here:

"The shoe boxes don?t just offer physical items to make life better for children. The gifts also present an opportunity to learn about the Gospel.
That?s exactly what Ralph did. When he accepted his gift, he also accepted Christ. As he kicks a soccer ball to a friend, his smile isn?t just because of his new toys. Now he has found God?s love. Ralph and his friends were offered ?The Greatest Gift of All? booklet with their gifts, which explains the story of Christ and salvation through Him. Ralph said he is excited to learn more about Jesus. He is blessed because his mother is also a Christian, and she taught him about Christ even before he believed. Joy also received the booklet, but she didn?t look at it as soon as she received it. She said she wanted to look at it later. When she reads ?The Greatest Gift of All,? there is hope that she too will find Christ?s love".

And here:
"Children who received shoe boxes are invited to participate in TGJ by the local churches and ministry partners. TGJ is a 12-lesson discipleship program, in the local language, from Samaritan?s Purse. It is utilized by the Operation Christmas Child project and is implemented by local churches and ministry partners".

And here is their last annual report, which makes their evangelising very clear.

This is the booklet they give out with the boxes. Some quotations:

"You were planned by God; you were not a mistake. He knows you and loves you. You are very valuable to him... Dear God... Help us to remember that you made everything and are in charge of everything. Amen" (p.9)

"When you sin, the pay you get is death. Everybody sins. We can't solve our sin problem without God" (p.16)

"If we believe in Jesus it means we can be friends with God and spend Forever with him in Heaven" (p29)

"Say with your mouth 'Jesus is Lord'. Believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead. Then you will be saved" (p.30)

There is much more in the same vein. As I said, if you are yourself a Christian, much of this will not be a problem for you.

But personally, I do not want to donate to a charity whose aim is to convert people to Christianity (or any other religion), so I have not taken part in these shoebox appeals. I dislike the fact that most people don't seem to know about the evangelism, and I think schools agree to take part without knowing the facts. It makes me uncomfortable that British children are innocently and kindly giving simple presents, which this organisation then use as a 'vehicle' for evangelising.

Well, seeing as Christmas is a fundamental Christian celebration,and the charity is a Christian one, it's a bit "Well, no shit, Sherlock" that they might slip a leaflet into the shoeboxes.
They don't HAVE to read the leaflet if there is one in there. Ralph's mum believed and passed her beliefs onto Ralph. Joy's mum said she might read hers later. They hope she might so that she can believe, too.
Your own example says they are just hoping that she does decide to believe in Him (which of course, they would do, wouldn't they?) They' don't say they'll put Joy in a headlock, be forced to recite the Lords Prayer and make them promise to be Christians forever before they are allowed shoeboxes.
They get one regardless of whether they want to believe or not.
So, no problm.

gah, problem stupid keyboard

I'm a christian. But we don't EVER give to the sp shoeboxes. They're Scarey. No child should have to give permission to be part of any giving. I hate it, we don't give to it!

There is a problem actually;

'Please be assured that the commitment of Samaritan's Purse to evangelism is as strong as ever. [...] Samaritan's Purse staff in the U.K. is dedicated, as we all are, to ensuring that Christian literature given by donors is used in effective ministry outreach to children through Operation Christmas Child.

The Gospel is also presented locally as part of the distribution of the gifts, and wherever possible, children are offered a Gospel storybook written in their own language called The Greatest Gift of All. Many children are also invited to enrol in a 10-lesson follow-up Bible study program, and upon completion receive a New Testament as a graduation gift.

In the United States, Christian literature remains inside the shoebox gifts given by donors. We are developing and implementing standard operating procedures to ensure that this practice is followed in the U.K. and other sending countries.'

The particular flavor of Evangelicalism spread by Samaritan's Purse (i.e. Franklin Graham) is not your usual 'love thy neighbor' and 'turn the other cheek' Christianity, it's sexist, homophobic and intolerant of other religions. You might not have an issue with your presents being used to encourage children to believe in that kind of nonsense, I, however, certainly do.

Oh and I'll also mention that Franklin Graham draws a WAGE from the charity, which including his father's ministry totals $1.2 million a year. If Franklin Graham cared so much about disadvantaged children, he wouldn't be using a charity, apparently set up to help them, to line his own pockets.

The question is, who are you doing it for?

If it's for the recipient, then there are much better ways to help than by freighting pound shop trinkets 1000s of miles across the planet.

Even if it weren't ethically reprehensible, it'd still be really, really dumb.

I think that the child likes to be an individual that someone has taken the trouble to think about rather than just a charity case that you fling money at. Of course it isn't the best way, but it gives huge pleasure to the DC. They are no different to your DC and you wouldn't want them to have no Christmas presents to open 'because it isn't the best way to use your money'.

If it was my child and they were not going to get any presents I would be thrilled that they had the joy of receiving something personal, just for them.

Christmas is one time when you can get away from the utilitarian way of looking at things and spread a little joy.

But they break open the boxes that you have lovingly wrapped and put together, then the "gifts" are given separately alongside their leaflet and throughout the year,not in the spirit of Christmas. Plus if these children are already another religion ie Muslim they don't celebrate Christmas

Ok, am going to write to our school too, I want to do Mary's Meals next year!

'Christmas is one time when you can get away from the utilitarian way of looking at things and spread a little joy. '

Yes, I can see that's nice for the spreader. Not sure it's all that fabulous for the non-Christmas-celebrating spreadee.

I had a long(very long!) chat with 7 yr old DS today who agreed wholeheartedly with all the reasons for not supporting this and we are going to get some gifts from here
www.goodgifts.org/special-gifts/little-good-gifts.html?___store=default&p=1
instead. He says our gay friends will be happy and so will his Muslim best friend and loved the idea that he could choose useful gifts.

Freaky, any chance you could link to the quotes from SP. I need to write a letter too and this sums up this charity really well. I've gone through their website but can't find that bit.

Oh and by the way, the charity that is registered in the UK is Samaritan's Purse International.

OCC is a campaign not a charity in itself. It's interesting to have a look at what other charities the Trustees belong to. It's all Billy Graham This and That and Evangelicals R Us.

I've not gone back to where I posted last. But I have since spoken to some of the other parents at the school. They are of the very mistaken belief that's this campaign is linked with the Samaritans. Does anyone know their stance on this?

I'm not doing this this year

Our school has stopped the samaratians purse and is doing road to hope (I think) and it sounds similar.

Am going to suggest a donation to a local charity instead

P.s. for any Irish mumsnetters what about trocaire donation instead or barnados or ispcc/nspcc

There are so many other charities doing good work out there