To think that 60k is a lot of money to earn a year?!

[MinkSlink]

I think it is a lot of money to earn per year but it seems a lot of people on mumsnet don't think so, am I in the piss poor minority here or what?!

Yes they do, but not on such a large scale as someone on 60k must be to be crying poverty .

and to be fair, some people I know, and some people on here don't. Like Mouthy, she had to go without gas to get her tooth sorted. It's obvious she wouldn't have been able to get any unnecessary expense. (sorry Mouthy if you think I'm out of line here) So it's a bit of a kick in the teeth when people who are on a lot more, who are just living more extravagantly, but claim they're skint.

But that's the thing, there's no evidence people are living "more extravagantly" just evidence that the poorest people who are least able to cope with it are being increasingly badly affected which is completely different from people on £60k having gardeners and cleaners and living in nice houses.

And I don't think anyone was ever crying poverty were they? Just disagreeing that £60k means you are well off and financially secure, it is still borderline and dependent on circs and is still sometimes a struggle (large families in London for example). That stuff is a race to the bottom argument and the actual bottom for many in the world is well below having to choose dental treatment or heating (although still absolutely shocking) so making it means we only listen to the concerns of the absolute worst off because there is always someone worse than you and the very worst are freezing and starving to death.

'We also only have £49k from dh's salary the rest is an annual bonus we don't always get.'

You really don't get it do you Offred?
But thanks to the people who do get it who are on 60k plus, i appreciate their postings.
I live in the NW too. My husband hasn't even had a rise in god knows how many years and i am doing twice as much work for less money than i was 10 years ago.

LittleMilla on £90K and you cant afford a dress from Next for the job interview or clothes for your dcs? I'm not flaming you i'm just curious where people spend their money. If i had £90K i would be on Assos now.

Can posters with high incomes who are writting about what they cant afford also write what they can afford? What their bills are etc?

Annual income is just a snap-shot of your overall wealth.
Yes, its a lot to earn in a year.
If that income is all you have, you are probably are less well-off/less secure than a family on £40k who own their nice house outright, or a couple on £20K who have a massive second home in the south of France or a self-employed person who is on the fiddle.

But surely, (and I am thinking of my peer group here), the many who own their properties outright - and thus have £2-300K on average securely behind them, are better off/more secure than those who don't whatever their annual salary.

Exactly mrsdevere

a lot of people are missing the point though.

Sideburns - what don't I get? If you are referring to "only" I was saying we don't earn £3400 per month after tax or £60k per year salary - there is a big difference between £49 and £60k and lots of people on £60k will be in similar positions, on salaries which are topped up by a bonus which they may or may not actually get.

I don't think anyone was saying people on higher incomes are less secure either and I even said as much further down the thread however having a £60k salary does not make you secure, if you lost your job, which is actually very likely just now, you would lose everything just like anyone else. Earning £60k doesn't even mean you will have equity in a house even if you own one.

And 150k is more than twice 60k so how does it relate?

euphemism
my friends are in their early 50's
many of us are finishing our mortgages
BUT
How many people do you know who are mortgage free and earning over £60k
(bearing in mind that there are around 100,000 in total in the UK)
as many of those who are mortgage free are pensioners

Offred, I don't see post housing cost income as being a valid comparison, because over the last 10 years so many people have over stretched themselves, not to get starter housing but to get something more than they could really afford, using sensible financial criteria. I see that as a lifestyle choice. So if someone chooses to get a mortgage that will involve them paying more than 1/3 of their net income away (assuming interest rates of approx 5.5%) then that is a lifestyle choice. At least they had the ability to make that choice. As someone else said upthread, if they managed to avoid getting it repossessed then at the end of 25 years, they will have a valuable asset which someone on £20k won't have.

Being on £12k with no dependents a house you owned but didn't pay for because it had been paid for by your parents and a car which is the same and a partner also earning £12k does make you better off than a lot of families with mortgages on £60k though in reality, maybe not than a family on £150k but I thought this thread was about £60k being a huge income that you couldn't struggle on?

Offred - you're veering off the point now. We can only now talk of averages, since it has come to this point. At 60k is well about the UK average of pay. Thats fact. if that family on 60k decides to have multiple children or buy a mega expensive house, thats their decision, they still have 60k to work with.

Based on what though novice? Maybe that is what my parent's generation did but my generation who came to having children and needing houses around the time the bubble burst are left with the consequences of high housing costs including rents which ludicrously are often higher than a mortgage but inaccessible to a lot of people who don't have a deposit and will never get one together because they are paying high rent.

I cannot imagine surviving on £12k a year with three children (or even double that) and I take my hat off to anyone who does it day in and day out. I don't know if I could do it - probably I could if I had to but probably not with a smile, probably not with keeping dc's expectations and hopes alive, definitely not in the home we have now. But DH is the grandson of a man who was sent down the mine on his 14th birthday (and who walked past the mine on his 18th to enlist as a professional soldier) because his family needed his wages to help feed his 9 younger siblings who all lived in a two up two down. Every single one of that man's children became a nurse or a teacher or an officer - his own children remember having very little. His grandchildren number lawyers, doctors, teachers, an artist, a senior policeman etc. It was a long journey - he walked on from the mine in 1927 just before the depression of the 30s. He had far fewer opportunities than today's children.

I know some people who really benefited from the property boom: some are virtually mortgage-free, some have flats to let as well as their own. Others inherited well or will do. (early 40's/South East).

Some people on £60K will be living the life of riley. Others - those who didn't win in the property boom and who won't inherit, won't.

People frequently end up with Children they didn't choose though through rape, contraception failure, dv, fertility treatment an marrying a partner with children. It just isn't that cut and dried. It is about as coherent as the argument "we're just going to take benefits away because it is your fault you are poor"

Offfred- thats twice youve mentioned rape etc to your argument. Obviously those factors would affect both parties. They still have a decision.

The thing is though that it is a rare thing for someone to be on a low income living in a house that their parents have bought for them. It is just not statistically the norm so it is not a very useful comparison. I think the point that lots of us have been trying to make is that 92% of the population don't have earn £60k (by whatever means), so if you have been fortunate enough to earn that income and it is a struggle then typically there must be lifestyle choices that make it hard to "struggle" by on £60k. Also, people's definiton of struggling is very different so it is quite easy to lose perspective of what you're "struggling" by on, until the other 92% of the population say "hang on, we would love the opportunity to try and struggle by on that income".

What do you mean "those factors would affect both parties who could still make a decision"?