To think that 60k is a lot of money to earn a year?!

[MinkSlink]

I think it is a lot of money to earn per year but it seems a lot of people on mumsnet don't think so, am I in the piss poor minority here or what?!

We ain't banker types.

We live in the back-end of nowhere & are very fucking grateful for what we earn.

We save most of it, live in a large but not stupid farmhouse.

& hope to retire in five years so we can have a brewery.

£60k isn't a huge amount, after tax.

It's not a bad salary by any means but you're not necessarily going to be well off for earning it.

justread, not Necker Island then....??????

But £15k a month whilst a lot is not mega bucks in the wealthier parts of London. It is a lot but in the context of a zone 1 or 2 SW or W postcode it is a spit in the ocean compared to those who might be on either side of you. I doubt that a 30 something couple on 120k pa could afford a large zone 2 house (£1m minimum), a decent car or two, two children and costs of childcare/school fees, etc.

That would have been the expected lifestyle for a professional couple 20 years ago; it is not attainable for senior civil servant/head teacher money nowadays. It requires the sort of money paid by merchant banks and elite law and accountancy firms.

That is not to say that £60,000 is not a lot of money to live on in many parts of the country but it is not enough to begin to fund a traditionally middle class lifestyle in Central(ish) London any more.

No - & I never will do, would do or ever hope to do bum sex with angry hedge-hogs.

Spero (oddly my phone wanted me to type that as speedo?!) - I no longer live in London, but further out in provincial Essex.

But even so, it's NOT possible to survive on a £12k wage without top ups. Unless you live in a cardboard box. But then you lose your job, as you can't be employed if you are of no fixed abode.

What frustrates me the most is that it is most often those earning £60k plus that are the ones saying that low earners shouldn't get benefits.

Quite how they think your bin man is going to live near enough to you to actually collect your bins is a mystery to me, if they are going to drop the level of support to the low paid. Which is exactly what UC will do once you have been claiming the Housing element for a year.

Wonder when bin collections will go down to monthly because there's no bin men near enough to actually collect the bins?

married 15k a month?!!!!!!!! 15k is the most I've ever earned salary wise!

Absolutely Married - we are 'wealthy', but not rich.

(& don't live in London)

Spero that was my point. That's why people in certain areas (London, SE and I'm sure some other v expensive area of the country wherever they may be) are very worried about the 26k cap in benefits. In London you don't have to live in a posh area to pay exorbitant rent. We live in a pretty cheap area and still pay £1400. Or you move out to a cheaper area and pay very high commuting costs, not covered by benefits. Or you find a job elsewhere and all lower wage jobs in London are taken by foreign workers. So London (or wherever) has no local dinnerladies, carers, officeworkers, shop workers, lower grade health care workers etc etc.

This does not mean that 60k is not a lot, but it's doubtful that any family lives on a minimum wage salary alone with no top ups.

Can anyone tell me how it costs less to feed a family of 4 adequately on an income of £12k in Central London than it does a family of 4 on £60k in Central London?

Anything after a basic roof over your head and adequate food in your belly is a luxury that is afforded to you by a high wage.

My father managed a 'middle class' lifestyle on an academic's salary in the 70's.

Large house, independent schools, holidays.

Impossible now.

60k is a lot on paper. Certainly irrespective of where you live,it will make you comfortable,maybe very. But not rich. Well,not in the UK anyway.

People earning 60k a year are about as deserving of vitriol and bile as the people "stealing" from "us" via benefits. Neither are the real problem financially speaking in the UK. The banks and the govn are.

Talkin, and others hung up on average salaries, please try to remember that the self employed declare far smaller incomes than those on paye, and so skew the figures significantly.
For example, the bloke who fixes our 110 year old roof when tiles blow off in the wind pays no tax at all. He lives in a new 5 bed house, runs a year old transit and has generally a very nice lifestyle, but by using all the tax loopholes available to him ends up owing hmrc £0, i know many others like him who pay nothing or very little. The skew to the means is significant.

Couthy I think that is a bit of a generalisation. I think it's your political leanings that influence your commitment to the welfare state, and traditionally the more well off have tended to be more right-leaning, but it's not a "let them eat cake" situation! I am very much a leftie, think the welfare state is a wonderful thing and feel very lucky to live in a country that has one. I therefore feel very sad that the bastard Tories are sucking the life out of it .

"My father managed a 'middle class' lifestyle on an academic's salary in the 70's.

Large house, independent schools, holidays.

Impossible now."

But irrelevant now when only 5% of the population earn £60,000 or more.

Wholly irrelevant.

I earn more than £60k BUT I have been working for 30 years. I wonder what the average ages are in the wage ranges (if that makes sense)?

Having said that, I was earning £30k about 20 years ago. I have no professional qualification or degree. I work in sales - about the only place you can earn any serious money with no professional qualifications unless you start a successful business of your own or invent something amazing.

For me, now, £60k, doesn't feel like much because my income is approximately one third of what it was five years ago but my commitments have remained largely the same or increased. I appreciate I could default on everything but not sure that would actually help much or make me feel better off.

The reality is that most people live up to their means, and perhaps beyond, so it doesn't matter what you earn unless you are very, very fortunate or have family money.

To answer one point though, I absolutely do not feel that benefits should be stopped, etc, and the poster assuming that those in my income bracket automatically despise those on benefits is as guilty of prejudice as those who assume anyone in receipt of benefits is a scrounger.

I don't give a stuff how much anyone earns, or not. Why would you? Why would anyone? Surely it's about the person, not the income?

In my local commuter town, I know of a family of 5 (mum, dad, set of 3yo triplets) living in a Private Rented bedsit. They can't afford to rent a one bed flat that actually has a bedroom rather than all sleeping in the one living area.

Why? The dad works 55 hrs a week. For NMW. He earns too much for them to get help with their housing costs.

They are not going to get Social housing for an eternity, because perversely, the council refuses to let them bid on 2-bed, or even 1-bed properties, because they have triplets that aren't all the same sex. The amount of people waiting for a 3-bed in my town? 7,000. How many come up a year? 32.

Would he think he was rich if he suddenly got paid £60k? Of course. He could afford adequate housing for his family.

Why does it cost them any less to feed their 3 DC's than it does my friend with 3 DC's (not triplets, so actively chose to have 3 DC's) whose partner earns £62k.

Answer? It doesn't. The family of 5 on £62k just have far more luxuries and space than the family on NMW.

I don't think it is Minty.

More than 5% used to have that lifestyle.

You couldn't do that now on £60,000.

Fewer than 1% now could do that now I think.

Inflation has outpaced interest.

Not that irrelevant.

there is something a bit weird about the top 5% of earners in the country thinking they are poor.

not a surprise really as i have a sister whom i love to bits even if i think shes deluded. shes in the top 1% of earners and has significantly lower than one would expect outgoings due to most of them being covered by the housing suituation she is in,but she still thinks shes poor

I'm amazed how many posters genuinely don't think £60k is a lot of money. The top 5% statistic has been repeated here over and over, an d talkinpeace has offered lots of detailed statistics, and yet people are still saying it's not a big salary. Saying £60k is not a lot in London is insulting to the 95% of Londoners who live on less than that.

An academic salary still pays for what I think of as a middle class lifestyle - not a postdoc, but a junior lecturer might get 40k, that's middle class.

It is irrelevant. Its an entirely different discussion to the point of this thread.

Oh and excellent Charleybarley. What a wit!