to think capping benefits at 2 children is a good idea

[moogstera1]

Child-related benefits may be 'capped' at two children"
*Iain Duncan Smith said the current system, where families get more benefits the more children they have, was among changes being considered.

Families on benefits were often "freed from" the decision of whether they could afford more children, Mr Duncan Smith said, and must "cut their cloth".*

yes yes, before I get jumped on, if both your arms fall off and a previously hard working wage earner is jobless, there should be ( and I imagine would be)a safety net for those who then need benefits and have more than 2 chidren; but, in principle, I agree that working families seem to have to make much more difficult decisions regarding how many children they have than long term non working do, and it's mostly about finance.
The suggestion is that this would not be happening till 2015 and then only to new claimants so no comments about which children should be sacrificed, please.
The idea seems to be to only factor in 2 children wrt tax credits, child benefit

I know two families that had three children and ended up producing two grandchildren between them!

I suspect it's more about the overall cost to the system of troubled families, and the morality of a system that encourages so many children to be born into a hopeless situation.

Whether you agree with IDS's proposals or not (I don't, as it happens), I think he is doing it because he thinks it's the right thing.

It doesn't sound too complicated to make additional children ineligible for child benefit claims. Maybe it could help influence people's decisions but I sort of doubt it's the most effective type of cap.

Good point.

beetrootfaced

comunity care grants are only availible to those who recive a limited number of benefits and also

are leaving or have just left an institution or hospital

nedd support remaining in the comunity instead of entering a institution or hospital.

are part of a planned resetlement program

or are about to become responsable for a young offender leaving custody on license

and help with making an none standered journey like to care for a sick relative or attend a funeral for a person whom you hold some formal responsability for.

you can claim for something called exceptional presure on families, however the liklyhood of being sucessfull for this unless you have documented evidence of essential equipment needing to be replaced as a direct result of a domestic violence incidence. or

significant breakdown with family resulting in you having to move (and you had no legal right to remain in your previous home)

you are disabled or have significant illness and you urgently require an essential bit of equipment that is needed as a direct result of the disability and illness and you have no other way of funding it.

your house falls down/floods/burns down/ some other disaster that renders your home unsafe to live in and you can prove it. (in very exceptional circumstances sever overcrowding will get concideration but not much)

you also have to be applying for funds to obtain an item/s that will activly remove the problem.

and no matter how important the item/s is/are to the claiment it only matters if the dwp agree. & that no other dept has an obligation to provide its not for daily living costs (unless its the young offender one)

sorry but your sil did not get a ccg because she had a baby your talking bollocks

Haven't read all the replies but I think it's a very good idea indeed!

Silly me Sock, of course you know my SIL and her circumstances better than her own family. If you would go back and reread my post I would like you to point out where I said my SIL got a community care grant BECAUSE she had a baby.

There's some dreadful comments on this thread

I think its an appallingly ill thought out idea that will in the future be devastating to children.

i have 5 children and claim CB and CTC. If this were to be reduced to just 2 we'd struggle. What i find odd is that people either see you as a benefit claimant or a taxpayer..........most benefit claimants are taxpayers!

I would love 5 kids... I can't afford them though!!

dontmindifido

your info about cb is incorrect massivly cb (originally called family allowence)
started in 1946 it paid nothing for the first/eldest child but did pay for 2nd 3rd 4th + children

in about 1952 it increased amounts from the equililent of 25p for each additional child to 40p but still didnt fund the first child

it increased again in 1956 for each 3rd child + to 50p but still remained the same for 2nd child and didnt pay for 1st.

in 1977 family allowence was renamed child benefit and for the first time paid for the first child and all subsiquent children untill

1991 when it changed to pay a higher amount for the first child but kept the lower amount for all subsiquent children.

at no time in the uk has child benefit/family allowence ever just paid for the first child.

outraged widows benefit has not existed since 2001. we now have breavement benefit that has some very strange rules and fewer people qualify.

I don't think there should be a benefit cap on two. Mabe means test it...some people do get pregnant and don't want an abortion but benefit capping would force more women into aborting. Contraception fails etc. I think that we should stop giving everyone £500 towards the child trust fund. Abolish that for everyone. Anyone who has kids to claims benefits is bonkers imo. It's such hard work.

I am a single mum and I work but need tax credit top ups. I would love to get a better paid job in my profession but I have been rejected at a couple of interviews in favour of better qualified women with rich hsubands who want to go back to work after kids. Some of the women told me they had moved as their dh got a promotion. I am left feeling that thay are going for the jobs I want for a bit of extra pocket money whilst my financial and career survival long tem depends on it and goodness knows I would love to work harder, earn more and get less benefits.

Why the resentment peeps? I think middle class families in general have less kids as child rearing is hard work and most mums have in that group are better educated and don't want to waste their education by having more kids whereas mabe women from less well educated backgrounds are bought up to see motherhood as more normal than getting a career. I do generalise of course as nowadays we have the yummy mummy career mums.

long term

Well that just makes you look churlish and envious then doesn't it zombiebunny

Rather than consigning thousands of children to penury, it might be better to ask why peoples incomes are now so low in relation to outgoings that they can not afford to have children.

Yes I fully admit I'm envious. I love going to work and missing seeing my kids grow up to pay for others to stay at home. Love it.

Actually...how about making it financially viable for one parent to go to work whilst the other looks after the children they have chosen to have!?... concept I know.

One of the main reasons why we have two children is the financial cost of having more. When you work, more children = less money; certain parts of the benefits system means that more children = more money and / or a bigger house. I don't think that this is entirely fair

I love work; is it not possible for most people to get a balance between seeing their kids grow up AND working? Surely it's healthier that way? due to cuts a creche has been closed, bus services have been culled and shops have gone under, all taking jobs with them. Plus my job was paid a lot more before the recession and now is paid peanuts.

Missed part of my post whcih said that if the goverment want more people to work and get off benefits then they should stop cutting jobs. Therein lies teh hypocracy.

I do think that the whole thread makes children sound like commodities ; rather like cars or a new piece of garden furniture rather than human beings but that's just me.

Also, now I come to think of it many of the squeezed middle couples I know get benefits. They also work so it's not just the feckless council scum who get benefits y'all.

You know what, you're right. The feckless poor annoy me so much, we should punish them by letting them watch their children starve. Because historically, you know, that worked out really well.

These are children you are talking about. But because you don't approve of their parents, they can fucking starve. The lack of empathy and compassion on here is making me feel sick.

I don't give a fuck if there are people out there taking the piss out of the benefits system. A civilised society does not allow children to suffer, irrespective of to whom they were born.

And for those saying "it's not fair that I have to limit my children to my income when they don't," well it's not particularly fair that David Cameron was born into such wealth that he has never had to think about money, when others have to actually work to survive, but I don't hear you calling for higher taxes on the rich, no, I hear you suggest taking money from the poorest in society.

toptramp the payments to the child trust fund have been stopped. no child born after 2/1/11 will recive it.

beetroot

the point you appear to have missed is, that for her to get a ccg. she is clearly in a suituation that qualifys her to recive one,most people who have an understanding of what that criteria actually is may have just a little bit of compassion.

as opposed to implying shes a feckless sponging scrounger whose rolling in it because of all the hand outs she gets.

unless ofcourse your trying to say she obtained it fraudulently? if thats the case report her.

Well said titwillow