to think capping benefits at 2 children is a good idea

[moogstera1]

Child-related benefits may be 'capped' at two children"
Iain Duncan Smith said the current system, where families get more benefits the more children they have, was among changes being considered.

Families on benefits were often "freed from" the decision of whether they could afford more children, Mr Duncan Smith said, and must "cut their cloth".

yes yes, before I get jumped on, if both your arms fall off and a previously hard working wage earner is jobless, there should be ( and I imagine would be)a safety net for those who then need benefits and have more than 2 chidren; but, in principle, I agree that working families seem to have to make much more difficult decisions regarding how many children they have than long term non working do, and it's mostly about finance.
The suggestion is that this would not be happening till 2015 and then only to new claimants so no comments about which children should be sacrificed, please.
The idea seems to be to only factor in 2 children wrt tax credits, child benefit

[LittleChickpea]

twofingers I grew up on a council estate. I lived though it. People do take the piss, I saw/heard it. My mum was a single mum with three kids and worked thee jobs. She missed time with us but sh worked hard an installed that in us.

[LittleChickpea]

Mrs DeVerd you need to read my earlier posts and see what my position on disability is.

[morethanpotatoprints]

Littlechickpea

Why did you say that about having to earn 16k more, to lougle of all people, what did it serve. That is why I posted about my mortgage being paid off. There are folks like me who have taken tax credits because they were offered. I won't complain about them being stopped or cut. But what do you expect Lougle to do about it.
That was a stupid thing to say and you should apologise. Just wicked

[morethanpotatoprints]

Littlechickpea

Those outside the band for tax credit are clearly earning enough and wouldn't need an extra 16k. They are fortunate enough to not need support

[LittleChickpea]

morethan my point was what people not entitled to credits have to earn. I wasn't attacking lougle.

MrsDeVere If you haven't bothered reading my position on disability benefits then you are commenting on half stories and making assumption. I mde my position on is disabilities pretty clear.

[sunshine401]

This will actually never happen for non-working people. The welfare state will not leave any child hungry/homeless no matter what number they are. All it will do is waste more money on new helplines for people who are struggling and then the funds will go out to them anyway. It will just take a lot more hassle but it will be there still to feed these "extra" children.
However working families will not have this back up as they will simply be told "work more hours". It is a messed up system.

[sunshine401]

It is a bit like the crisis/budgeting loans that are already available now but only if you are on certain benefits. (JSA ,Income Support,....)

[LittleChickpea]

What i know is we have to agree to disagree. I don't think the different views will ever come to a happy medium.

[FasterStronger]

Clouds - yes the benefits system for people unable to work due to disability or people who work as carers for those with serious needs to be completely separate from the system for people who are not working.

the former is about helping people cope, the other is about pressuring people to help themselves.

[Nicecuppachar]

morethan we are not fortunate not to rely on other people to pay our way. We have worked horrifically hard for over twenty years. Sacrificed, risked, gambled and gone without . We work over 120 hours a week between us.

I wonder how many of those bleating about how fortunate we are have ever/wouldl ever do that?

[Shagmundfreud]

Are you on a minimum wage Nice? Is that why you have to work those hours?

I feel sorry for you.

[Nicecuppachar]

Hardly. We run businesses.

[Shagmundfreud]

"The welfare state will not leave any child hungry/homeless no matter what number they are"

There are currently thousands of children living in really horrible bed and breakfast accommodation in the UK. They are homeless. They are disadvantaged by it.

There are children whose parents struggle to heat their home and buy nutritious food for them. You have to know about nutrition, be a good cook and be really skilled at budgeting to feed a family a healthy diet on a subsistence income.

There are also children whose home lives are HORRIBLE because their parents are incredibly stressed and depressed from struggling to cope with debt, expensive housing, low wages, living on subsistence benefits.

Poverty really does affect children in the most awful ways. But it's a price that many people feel is worth paying.

[LittleChickpea]

Grafters Nice that's what you are... Hat off to you..

[Nicecuppachar]

And you feeling sorry for someone who works long hours is precisely what is wrong with the benefits system.

You sound very smug at not doing that . Are you sponging off the rest of us.?

[Shagmundfreud]

So why do you work loads of hours? Is it because you like having nice stuff?

If you choose to spend your life at work so you can spunk loads of money on stuff/send your children to private schools/whatever, it's not really cool to make it sound like you're doing it because you have to. You're doing it because you like the lifestyle it gives you. Fair enough. Each to their own. But if it's really that bad and that much of a sacrifice, maybe do less of it?

[Crawling]

Nice I work at least 119 hours single handedly being a carer for my dd I would gladly switch that for a 60 hour job it would be a nice break and great to be earning and not dependent on handouts.

[FasterStronger]

But if it's really that bad and that much of a sacrifice, maybe do less of it?

people who work long hours are either on a low income and cannot work less, or a high income and pay the highest taxes the country relies upon. and many public services rely upon people working long hours and high pressure.

[Nicecuppachar]

Yes, we choose to ad yes, we have a super lifestyle, thank you. It was a sacrifice in the early years but less so now.

And, of course we like having nice stuff . Don't you?

[LittleChickpea]

If you choose to spend your life at work so you can spunk loads of money on stuff/send your children to private schools/whatever, it's not really cool to make it sound like you're doing it because you have to. You're doing it because you like the lifestyle it gives you. Fair enough. Each to their own. But if it's really that bad and that much of a sacrifice, maybe do less of it?

That really says a lot...

[morethanpotatoprints]

Nicecuppacher

Many people who claim benefits and tax credits have made sacrifices, taken risks, gambled etc. Yes and some have worked as many hours as you.
My own dh works in excess of 70 hours a week, although granted its not manual work.
You too are entitled to tax credits you know. If you earn more than the cut off point, then you are most fortunate, because many don't.

[Crawling]

Oh and I get paid 58 pound carers allowance for my 17 hours a day spent caring for dd.

[Shagmundfreud]

"And you feeling sorry for someone who works long hours is precisely what is wrong with the benefits system.

You sound very smug at not doing that . Are you sponging off the rest of us.?"

No. Don't claim anything. Not even child benefit. DH works long hours and I'm part time because I have a child with ASD who can't cope in group childcare. But I feel sorry for people who have no life because they work all the time. Unless they like their work so much that they prefer to work than not to work. Or unless they're choosing to spend their lives at work in order to fund a very affluent lifestyle. Because if that's the situation you'd have to arrive at the conclusion that they like having lots of money more than they like having time with their family.

Do you employ a lot of people Nice?

[Shagmundfreud]

"And, of course we like having nice stuff . Don't you?"

Not enough time to spend my life doing something I clearly resent. You sound like you're quite angry about all the hours you've spent at work. I think that's sad.