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Original poster

To think there should be arts based specialist schools for younger children?

107 replies

SilverCharm · 21/10/2012 22:23

Ok we have schools which are specialist schools at secondary level....some are performing arts based...others are academies with a strong background in computers or other subjects.

But why can't there be middle schools for DC aged 8 plus where the arts are stronger than the academic subjects?

People will say "Oh but 8 is too young to specialise" well I disagree. I know my 8 year old is very strong in arts based subjects and struggles with maths and science.

I know this. I see it. She's like me and she would be better off in a school where she could concentrate on building her art subjects....performance, creative writing, painting, media, music etc.

That way, she would be better prepared for a career in one or more of these fields....is it a bad idea? Why?

OP posts:
seeker · 21/10/2012 22:59

Absolutely, MrsTP- and we'd have a generation of people able to question the woo merchants properly.

Op, my dd was like yours, but she has just got As in 3 sciences and maths GCSEs, and she is so proud of them because they were hard. Given the choice at 8 she would have taken the easy path.

OddBoots · 21/10/2012 23:00

Because while on the surface of it that would give more choice to people the reality of it is that specialised primary education would restrict choice. Look at the number of people who end up at faith schools despite not wanting to attend them just because of where they live.

Children are only at school for short days for 190 days a year, that gives every evening and 175 whole days in which they can focus on the areas that suit them.

Original poster
SilverCharm · 21/10/2012 23:00

WIlson no.... never said that...I said it could be an arts based choice...so a trained artist can be an art teacher...one doesn't need MAJORLY excellent maths to do that.

MrsTerry yes...and less maths would still provide the basics...which of course are important.

I'm not brilliantly paid...but I am paid...to do what I love and that's FAR moe important than being in a job I hate or struggle to do.

OP posts:
germyrabbit · 21/10/2012 23:01

he's 11 now, and just started secondary, he is much more happier now

Original poster
SilverCharm · 21/10/2012 23:02

OddBoots I suppose it could restrict choice...didn't think of that.

OP posts:
MrsHoolie · 21/10/2012 23:03

I went to a specialist music school,and there were children from as young as eight there. I joined when I was ten.
I have no idea about other arts based schools though.

OddBoots · 21/10/2012 23:03

I do think there is room for more art within schools in general though, it sounds like some schools are hardly touching it which can't be right.

DowagersHump · 21/10/2012 23:04

To be any good at a lot of the things you mention (gardening, set design were what leapt out at me) you need an understanding of science and maths.

Good gardeners understand biology and chemistry. Good set designers need an appreciation of space and maths.

Music is massively connected to maths.

What you're proposing is an utter nonsense if you want your child to be successful

WorraLiberty · 21/10/2012 23:04

This thread is quite bizarre

You want your DD to not be taught the subjects she's struggling with at the age of 8 to 'not be taught so intensively' and you've already no just decided that she'll actually be going to Uni (you have no idea if she'll choose to) but you also think you know what she'll want to study Confused

And at the tender age of 8?

Really?

It sounds to me as though you're sweeping under the carpet what she can't do that well and trying instead to magnify what she can.

That's madness at her age and I think your posts are full of your own projections.

WilsonFrickett · 21/10/2012 23:04

A trained artist will still need a degree though, either in art (with a teaching qual post grad) or in teaching. You just don't get that level of qualification without GCSE maths, English, couple of sciences.

If you're OP said 'why can't my DD8 specialise in science and pure maths' I would give the same answer, btw. 8 is too young to specialise.

germyrabbit · 21/10/2012 23:05

of course you need a good grounding etc, but to engage the child in the first place surely you need to look at what they excel at?

MrsTerryPratchett · 21/10/2012 23:06

No. I'm sorry. People who attend 'normal' schools leave unable to do basic maths. I teach housing readiness and financial literacy courses as part of my job and I stare out at blank faces when I talk about interest rates and compound interest and payday loans. If there is even less focus on maths there would be even less ability to not get ripped off.

I agree with seeker well done your DD BTW. One of the reasons that people believe in homeopathy and all that bollocks is that they don't understand science, you know, research and statistics and all that.

WorraLiberty · 21/10/2012 23:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

seeker · 21/10/2012 23:07

"of course you need a good grounding etc, but to engage the child in the first place surely you need to look at what they excel at?"

Are you saying that if they don't excel at maths they shouldn't do it?

WorraLiberty · 21/10/2012 23:07

Ooops wrong thread...sorry ignore me Blush

showtunesgirl · 21/10/2012 23:08

OP, as you can see from my NN, I am arts based in my career.

My advice to you would be to NOT just concentrate on what your DD is good at. I was dragged kicking and screaming into normal academia and desperately wanted to go straight into performing arts schools when I was little. I have always wanted to do what I wanted to do since I was about 4 and couldn't understand why my parents wouldn't let me.

Now looking back on it, I am extremely grateful that my parents tried to give me a more rounded education. Yes, I'm still shit at maths but who knew that I would love science as much as I do and still have an avid interest in it.

I have recently also worked with several kids from children's drama schools and though they were lovely kids, I worried about them. They do so many arts based subjects that they are only going to have time to take about 4/5 GCSEs. The kids I worked with were about 8-10 years old. Yes, they love what they do at the moment but how many 8 year olds do end up doing what they say they loved when they were 8 and don't change their minds? Very, very few. The reason why I worried for these children is that if they turn around and change their minds at 14 and decide they want to do something like be a doctor / lawyer, they will be hard pressed to do so.

I also know some grown up ex-child actors who upon reaching adulthood were completely stuck as to what to do as they no longer wanted to act but weren't equipped to do anything else.

If your DD is strong in the arts fields, she will find her way eventually but the best artists are the ones that have a good grounding in most things. Knowing about all things really does enrich your creativity.

germyrabbit · 21/10/2012 23:10

er no! i am saying the need a broader curriculum in primary. it's no wonder so many kids are falling behind when they school day is structured around maths and literacy and nothing much else

Original poster
SilverCharm · 21/10/2012 23:13

Ok I've been told. I am BU! I will shut up now. Grin Just a little fantasy then.

OP posts:
picturesinthefirelight · 21/10/2012 23:14

It's private but Hammond prep in Chester. It's non selective and seems to offer a normal curriculum but with access to the specialist facilities & some of the staff of The Hammond School. Music, drama& art are apparently very strong there.

MrsTerryPratchett · 21/10/2012 23:15

germy I think a lot of us would also argue that excluding music and art is a bad idea too. Children learn in different ways and there is no reason any route should be barred.

showtunesgirl I don't know what you think but the arty people I know... The ones that are well rounded and successful seem to be the ones who had a 'normal' childhood. The ones that have arty/showbiz parents and upbringing seem to end up more messed up with nothing to fall back on. Also, shouldn't children be developing an internal locus of control? A lot of art, music and writing depends on other peoples' approval. Maths is it's own reward.

claraschu · 21/10/2012 23:17

I agree with you. I just think school could be so much more interesting. Primary schools do hardly any science anyway, and the maths is pretty basic and uninspiring.
If they abolished assemblies (except special occasions), and time wasted over discipline issues, and had specialist teachers for Art, Music, and Drama, they could do it all.

seeker · 21/10/2012 23:25

A good Primqry school would have loads of music and art too, obviously!

showtunesgirl · 21/10/2012 23:26

MrsTerryPratchett, yes I agree. The only ones I know that have arty / showbiz parents and aren't messed up are the ones that were born into showbiz "royalty".

germyrabbit · 21/10/2012 23:29

performing arts shouldn't be confused with run of the mill arts subjects though

yes of course a good school should have lots of music and arts but the majority just don't

what about crafts subjects like carpentry? most schools hardy touch on those only for a term or two, the national curriculum really doesn't put much emphasis on these subjects now.

showtunesgirl · 21/10/2012 23:36

Yes, it's a real shame that a lot of schools don't teach drama anymore. Drama isn't about making actors, it's also equips people with confidence skills and the ability to do things like public speaking.