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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

... to think you don't patronise people in poorer countries

64 replies

Beograde · 21/10/2012 12:42

I've just come back from visiting a poorer European country (PS the country isn't the one slightly suggested by my username). I was visiting a friend from that country and a UK based friend of my friend has accused me of being rude.

In short, they suggested that I should have paid for everything, on the basis that "in the third world(!), remuneration is expected when hospitality is given", and that "I needed to pay not only for myself but for everyone else involved".

I behaved in a way I've always done in the UK when visiting someone. I bring a gift and I try to pay for roughly my share of the costs. When I went out to a bar, I would buy drinks for people, and it would roughly work out when if I was bought drinks, etc.

I was not visiting anything like a 3rd world country, but even if I had been, I think it would have been patronising to "throw my money around". I'm not especially wealthy

So, AIBU to think like this, and how would you have behaved on a visit to a poorer country if invited to visit?

OP posts:

alphabite · 21/10/2012 13:07

It not a good analogy though unless you are poor, which I doubt as you could afford flights etc.

Birdsgottafly · 21/10/2012 13:07

It depends on where you where and their circumstances.

My sister has close friends in Greece and for the first time has paid for them all to do what they would normally do, they have put her up for 30 years, so it was her suggestion that she was allowed to do this, for them.

I have paid for nights out in Poland and Bulgaria, which even though i am buying, has cost me a lot less than a night out here in the UK, for just me.

There is real poverty in parts of the EU.

Original poster

Beograde · 21/10/2012 13:08

No, I don't want to give the impression I was taking everyone out to swanky bars and expecting them to pay. We went to one bar with the family and I paid for drinks. We didn't go out for food with the family. I went out to a restaurant with friends and paid my share, but it wasn't my choice of restaurant, etc.

OP posts:

SilverCharm · 21/10/2012 13:09

When I stay with a friend, I tend to buy more than my share of things just because they're providing accommodation and being "put out" by my being there.

Original poster

Beograde · 21/10/2012 13:12

I think I probably did pay more than my fair share for the family on the one occasion I was out with them, but not friends. I didn't pay for the food shopping, but it was a rural area, and so there wasn't the opportunity to take the family out for meals, etc.

OP posts:

Kewcumber · 21/10/2012 13:13

I would have paid for one meal out with the family who hosted me - I'd do the same in the UK especially if you've eaten their food all week. I would also have offered to buy and make a meal at home one evening. I wouldn't have paid for their friends though.

I think bringing a gift and then paying your own way when out is a bit tight if they are much less well off than you.

slightlytipsy · 21/10/2012 13:16

I wouldn't expect anyone to do that! I come from Greece, and at the moment they are quite poor. I pay for the meals as a gift, and I pay for what I have. Usually, because I'm quite skint myself, I can't afford to pay as much as I'd like, so I help around the house a lot too.

I lived on Corfu, in quite a poor area with no real trade or business. We were badly off, thankfully not as bad as others, but worse than most. A distant French relative visited us. He paid for everyone we knew and for us. We were very patronised because, although we were poor, we weren't starving and because no one wants money thrown at them. Paying for everyone at a nice ordinary cafe is fine- taking them for posh drinks and paying isn't.

honeytea · 21/10/2012 13:16

I think I would want to spend the same anount of money as them taking into account the higher value of the pound, so if they spent 10 pounds and fed you for a week with home cooked meals I would want to spend 100 pounds (or the equivelent percentage of my monthly wage) on them.

A cash gift when leaving is a good idea, you can always say it's just your left over curency.

I live in a scandinavian country and I have the opposite problem, i feel bad when we have guests that everything is so bloody expensive!

SoldeInvierno · 21/10/2012 13:18

For a poor family, to have one more mouth to feed for 5 days could be really difficult, but at the same time, they'd rather not eat themselves than admit the truth.

They organised the meal out because you were there. Probably they would have never done so if they had been on their own. And they probably invited the friends because they thought that's the polite and welcoming thing to do. Different people, different cultures. So, I do think you should have paid for the meal out, or at least make a big contribution towards their weekly shopping. As it is too late now, all you can do is send a thank you letter and possibly another gift.

Original poster

Beograde · 21/10/2012 13:30

I feel as if I'm drip feeding here a little to defend my case, but the friend I was visiting lives and works in the States and earns double what I earn. It was their family I was visiting. I didn't get the impression they were especially poor, or worried about the cost of me coming to stay. In the UK, where I know where restaurants are, etc, I would taken the family out - where I was, I didn't and didn't get a chance to do so.

OP posts:

winnybella · 21/10/2012 13:46

I think it's a bit odd to assume that there is one code of conduct in situations like this, tbh. It depends on people in question more than on the country they're from.

I'm Polish and I (or my family or my friends) would most certainly not expect you to pay for anything as you are a guest in my/our house. I think it's extremely patronizing to say that because your hosts live in a poorer country than the one you come from they will automatically expect you to invite them for expensive dinner or want cash gifts (FFS at that one).

winnybella · 21/10/2012 13:48

And a gift and a round of drinks is more than enough.
Receiving a guest doesn't equal running a hotel and expecting to be paid for it.

HeinousHecate · 21/10/2012 14:03

That's a very good point, winny.

my family in Kenya would be beyond insulted if we tried to give them money, or pay for everything. They do everything up to and including slaughtering a goat in honour of guests and the idea of you throwing your money at them, well, I wouldn't dare even try it

MrsSchadenfreude · 21/10/2012 15:03

For those of you who don't think anywhere in Europe is comparable with the developing world, may I recommend a visit to Moldova, Kosovo or Albania?

ElaineBenes · 21/10/2012 15:08

My experience in poorer counties (huge generalization but invariably true thus far) is that if you are a guest in someone's house, it is hugely insulting to offer money! Lovely gifts, even luxury ones, are greatly appreciated but to give money? Absolutely not. Not sure about protocol when going out to restaurants etc but my experience is that hosts fight tooth and nail to pay the whole thing and even insisting on paying my share is a delicate operation!

amicissimma · 21/10/2012 15:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Laquitar · 21/10/2012 15:45

I was going to post similar to Elaine. In East European countries and the ones that are struggling i.e. Spain, Greece, Ireland, hospitality and pride are big things. I wouldn't pay for groceries. I know in Spain where i have family it would be a bit .

Presents from abroad are always welcome ime.

Drinks/meal out on the last day as 'Thank you for the hospitality'.

quesadilla · 21/10/2012 15:56

I think it depends a lot on the country and the relative income levels there. I don't think it's as simple as what some people are saying: that there are no third world countries in Europe. Technically that's true but bits of Eastern and Sputhern Europe like Romania and recession-hit Greece are poorer than parts of Latin America now. Also depends on cultural traditions. Italy, for example, hospitality is a big deal and if you are the host you are expected to pay for everything. Based on what you've said I think your behaviour sounds perfectly correct. Unless you are somewhere properly third world you can't be expected to pay for absolutely everything. As long as you contribute, make some nice gestures and don't assume everyone can keep up with western Europe spending habits I think you are fine.

Pitmountainpony · 21/10/2012 16:06

I think you have to be careful when you stay with people. Not to be tight........you take a gift for a meal at some one,s place but for 5 days stay.....yes I would pay for the family every time you ate out.......not friends but the family you stay with,expecting them to have probably cooked some meals at home. I would do this in a non third world location as you describe it.
I have had guests we hardly knew stay and I felt they were indeed cheap by avoiding the meal out and expecting to have dinner cooked every night......distant relatives who clearly made a habit of staying with whoever they could so they got cheap holidays....then they went shopping every day spending huge amounts.....it was crass.They did indeed get us a small gift but there was just a lack of generosity on their part I found really shocking.

We are very careful to be as generous as we are able to be when we stay with friends rarely....just a gift is not enough unless that gift is a 50 quid supermarket gift card towards groceries for 5 days as a minimum.
It is an unspoken rule of etiquette when receiving hospitality...the host houses you but you feed them one way or another, so that you somehow reciprocate their kindness......unless you are under 21 as maybe it takes a while to work this out or you have no money.....you will know next time.
Far from patronizing anyone it is just doing the right thing. Your friend is helping you learn an embarrassing lesson. Do not be the cheap guest.......it is not a sweet legacy to leave.

SkinnedAlive · 21/10/2012 16:07

I don't think you behaved badly at all. Ignore your UK friend. I live in a poor European country (and yes, some people live in real poverty similar to India, far east etc where I have also visited). Where I live, the family would have loved having you and cooking for you, and would have been offended if you had tried to give them cash for staying the week. In some rural areas there are no restaurants etc. Just remember the nice time and friendships you made :)

Pitmountainpony · 21/10/2012 16:15

Oh Beograde please don,t say you didn,t even take them for one dinner out?
It does not matter that your friend earns more than you.....when people are generous enough to host you which always involves some level of inconvenience for the host, it is just the generous thing to do to be generous back in a way beyond a token gift.
I remember an Italian friend telling me an English friend stayed for over a week and just did not offer to pick up the tab for anything......he asked me whether this was an English thing to take and give so little back......I responded no it is just some people really are tighter than others when they enjoy cheap holidays due to someone else,s hospitality.
You may well be a very nice person Beograde but honestly being tight is not a trait to cultivate and maybe your friend is pointing it out. My bil is like this and frankly I cannot get past it and just do not feel endeared to him as he never wants to put his hand in his pocket......don,t be that person as everyone notices it even if they say nothing.

Laquitar · 21/10/2012 16:22

Pit a supermarket gift card for 5 days food would be insulting in some countries. British tea, scotch whiskey, alcohol from airport, perfumes yes. Presents for children, big yes.
Cash or groceries no.

znaika · 21/10/2012 16:41

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Pitmountainpony · 21/10/2012 17:02

No that suggestion of a gift card is for future reference for op.
A meal out paid by op would be an equivalent gesture and if this was not possible and it seems a meal did happen and the op just paid her share. There was the error of extreme tightness her friend is now pointing g out to her.
We all slip up but just don,t ever be so frugal again when people are so hospitable to you.

Goldenbear · 21/10/2012 17:02

My Dad works in Ghana for 2/3 months at a time. He is given lists of items to bring back from England that his colleagues can't afford. Equally, when they were having a team meeting, that included some fairly poor Farmers he was expected to pay for everyone's meal in a hotel- everyone expected it, no one offered a contribution and nobody felt patronised. That's his experience but I'm not sure about 3rd world European countries??

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