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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think you shouldn't have to accommodate gay / unmarried couples?

407 replies

moogstera1 · 19/10/2012 09:18

Re. the b and b owners who have been fined for refusing to allow a gay couple to share a room.
From what I can gather, they are committed Christians who do not allow hetero or homosexual unmarried couples to share a room.
The gay couple deliberatly chose this B and B as they knew they would be refused a shared room and wanted to make a legal point.
They were offered 2 seperate rooms but refused.
So, despite personally not being at all religious and not caring if someone wants to share their bed with whoever they choose, AIBU to think that in their own home, they can choose to uphold their values ( which seem to be consistent as regards no unmarried couples.)

OP posts:
Pagwatch · 19/10/2012 09:58

Sackgirl,
You are determined to ignore the point that they have chosen to open a business which is subject to anti-discrimination laws.

If they were in their home and the couple asked to stay over and they, because of their religious views, refused most people and the law would accept that. People may disagree but it would be their right.

But they did this as a business dealing with the general public.

It is different.

FreakySnuckerCupidStunt · 19/10/2012 09:58

Ciske I really want to high five you right now.

ilovemydogandMrObama · 19/10/2012 09:59

Sure, you don't have to open your home to paying guests.

it's that simple.

Original poster
moogstera1 · 19/10/2012 09:59

they didn't refuse to let them stay, they refused to let them share a bed. totally different.

OP posts:
fluffyraggies · 19/10/2012 09:59

Supposing i opened a hotel only for people with long fingers. No chubby fingers allowed. It's to do with my religion. I have a right to have a religion and this is it.

I advertise myself as a slim finger only hotel, and i believe i will burn in hell if i let a chubby hand in.

If i can be allowed to do this - then the hotel down the road will have to be allowed to not let someone in on the basis of the colour of their skin. Or because of the God they prey to.

You see OP? Your own beliefs do not give you a right to discriminate if you are offering a service. That way madness lies.

FreakySnuckerCupidStunt · 19/10/2012 10:00

they didn't refuse to let them stay, they refused to let them share a bed. totally different.

Which they wouldn't have done had they been heterosexual, therefore they were discriminating against them based on their sexuality. It's still discrimination.

SHRIIIEEEKPoolingBearBlood · 19/10/2012 10:00

So they offered a reduced service because they were gay. Discrimination. Which bit do you not understand

SackGirl · 19/10/2012 10:00

I don't agree with discrimation, but I also think we as a world brought christianity into it so how can we judge people for following the belief system of it? I hate religion, it is horrible and damning, but I understand why people feel scared of it... I just think in this case they weren't rude to the couple they offered a bed still they didn't use any words that would be deemed as horrible. They were just at the same time trying to stick to their belief system. I just find it all a bit harsh.
You don't seem to be disagreeing with the fact they would want the couple to be married? or any couple to be married, that's a part of their religion as well so why is that okay? I wouldnt feel offended if me and my partner were sent away because we werent married... it's just their beliefs, they aren't the same as mine, but oh well

Birdsgottafly · 19/10/2012 10:00

in their own home

You can set whatever rules that you want towards anyone in your own home.

When you run a business, you cannot, if you live within the EU.

If you cannot offer "goods or services" to all of the public (some exceptions are allowed) then you have to compromise on what sort of business that you want to opperate.

If that is impossible, move out of the EU.

We have created and extended this ruling to where we are today to try to create equlity and tolerance, so that we don't ever allow what happened in Nazi Germany, to happen again.

Or so that some people donot think that Gay people are less human than others and can be treated, "less favourably", and murdered, or so that girls in our society are not shot in the streets, because they want an education, as is happening now.

Mrsjay · 19/10/2012 10:01

they refused to let them share a bed. totally different.

But this couple were in a relationship why couldn't they share a bed they are not 'special friends' they are a couple who wanted a stay in a bed and breakfast like countless other couples yet the owners decided to not allow that becuase they are same sex it is not totally different,

eBook · 19/10/2012 10:01

GPs who have a moral or religious objection to abortion are asked to refer a patient to another doctor. I dont see anything wrong with the doctors being allowed to do that.

It's wrong because it delays the necessary treatment, adding to the pain and stress of an already very difficult situation.

It's also a negative experience for the patient to be patently disapproved of when they had unwittingly gone to the doctor in a vulnerable position, expecting non-judgemental support and assistance.

BupcakesAndHaunting · 19/10/2012 10:01

YABVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVU.

If you treat one set of people differently from another set of people (in a way that excludes them or negatively impacts on them) then you are discriminating.

I don't believe that religion is a reason to be able to get away with being a discriminatory fuckwit.

SackGirl · 19/10/2012 10:01

"Which they wouldn't have done had they been heterosexual, therefore they were discriminating against them based on their sexuality. It's still discrimination."

Well they would have if not married... and I wouldnt be offended by that.

Original poster
moogstera1 · 19/10/2012 10:02

If it's Ok for a GP to refer a patient to another doctor so as not to offend their beliefs, why is it not OK for a hotel owner to refer guests to another hotel so as not to offend theirs?
( not that they were doing that, they just didn't want them sharing a bed).
I bet they would have acted the same if a young, non ring wearing hetero couple came in.

OP posts:
FreakySnuckerCupidStunt · 19/10/2012 10:02

SackGirl Well if you don't agree with discrimination, stop defending it Hmm

It doesn't matter if they weren't rude, it doesn't matter if they offered them an alternative, it is STILL discrimination.

And actually, yes, it's discrimination to deny unmarried couples a room too.

thewashfairy · 19/10/2012 10:03

I run a B&B from home. I have absolutely no problem with gay/unmarried etc. couples staying in any of my rooms.
It is a business aswel as my and my families' home so I do decide who I want to share it with and refuse anyone for any reason whenever I want.You just have to be discreet about it.
I have run this business,very successfully, for over a decade now and I have only had trouble once.
It's a great way to earn a good living whilst still being at home at all times for my DC.
I think to deliberately pick this property as a test case was a spiteful thing to do.The owners brochure makes their Christian believes very clear so why not respect that and stay somewhere else?
Why do you have to make a point,like a spoilt toddler who doesn't get their way?
The fine put on the owners for 'hurting the gay couples feelings' is also out of all proportion in my eyes.

blueraincoat · 19/10/2012 10:03

Sackgirl Intolerance of intolerance is NOT discrimination.

Also, I am sure as a BUSINESS they abide by health and safety laws, tax laws etc. The can't pick and chose the laws they abide by. As a business you need to also abide by equality laws. The couple saw that they were breaking the law by doing this and highlighted it. Good on them.

SHRIIIEEEKPoolingBearBlood · 19/10/2012 10:03

You can refuse to provide goods or services to people if you don't like their bigoted views, or their shoes, or their chubby fingers, or their ginger hair (tho this may be on shaky ground). You cannot refuse good or services to people because of a characteristic which is protected under the equalities act.

eBook · 19/10/2012 10:03

If it's Ok for a GP to refer a patient to another doctor so as not to offend their beliefs, why is it not OK for a hotel owner to refer guests to another hotel so as not to offend theirs?

In my opinion, neither is OK, and the law should reflect this.

Birdsgottafly · 19/10/2012 10:03

"I wouldnt feel offended if me and my partner were sent away because we werent married"

I am thankful that my DD's don't live in a time, or society that they would have to give their babies up, because there would be nowhere for them to live (Single mums where once refused accomodation).

FreakySnuckerCupidStunt · 19/10/2012 10:04

Well they would have if not married... and I wouldnt be offended by that.

So what if you wouldn't be offended by it? Other's would be and they have the right not to be discriminated against.

BupcakesAndHaunting · 19/10/2012 10:04

If your religion makes such a delicate flower of you that you can't run your business without offending people because their way of life doesn't tally with your beliefs, then it's time to shut up shop, I'm afraid.

DontmindifIdo · 19/10/2012 10:04

They did effectively refuse their custom, the gay couple wanted to book a double room, the owners refused to let them have hte double room they had booked, offering a different product (2 single rooms) that the gay couple weren't trying to buy.

The B&B owners are in the wrong business.

Mrsjay · 19/10/2012 10:04

can a GP offer a gay person another GP because he is uber christian or muslim I don't think they can, the only reason a GP would refer is because of abortion so on a different scale to bedsharing,

SHRIIIEEEKPoolingBearBlood · 19/10/2012 10:04

For example, a sensible one, you could refuse to allow a violent drunk to stay. Not illegal. Not discrimination.