to have sobbed my heart out at work today because I shouldn't have to do this

[caniscantanymore]

I'm a vet. Some details changed or omitted for anonymity purposes and because I'll get flamed for this.

Today a man brought his dog in to me.

The dog was a large, boisterous adolescent puppy. He hurtled into the room, bouncing up to me excitedly, wagging his tail all the time and nudging at my hand with his muzzle. His big squishy paws crashed against my chest each time he paused to greet me, as he bounded around the room investigating all the smells. He was an unusual cross, very striking to look at and obviously a bright and energetic dog. He was adorable.

The history went like this:

The dog had been bought as a tiny puppy by a couple who were told it was a "designer" cross between two specific small breeds. Now, if the people who bought this puppy had had the slightest inkling about what they were doing it would have been immediately obvious to them that this was most certainly not a cross between two small breeds. But anyway, they didn't have a clue so they bought the cute little puppy from this dubious source (probably at a cost of several hundred pounds) and took it back to their family home, complete with toddler.

The dog grew a bit and it became clear that it was actually going to be really big. It was bouncy, energetic and destructive. It kept racing around and knocking over their small child. So they rehomed it to a family member.

The family member also had children but they were slightly bigger children. The family member really wanted to do the right thing, so they tried to "discipline" the dog. The dog began to show occasional signs of aggression and was completely hyperactive in the home, destructive and unmanageable. I was not surprised to hear this, since it was obvious to me from this dog's heritage that it was the sort of dog which had significant needs in terms of exercise and stimulation. In an attempt to magically resolve the issues the family member had the dog neutered. Which unsurprisingly made no difference.

Today the dog was brought in to be put to sleep. It had growled very aggressively when a child had put its face near his, and between this and an imminent change in circumstances the family member felt unable to manage the dog any more. He had tried local and national rescue organisations, all of which were full. He had nobody to care for the dog overnight tonight. He was not able to take the dog home, partly because of safety concerns and partly because the decision had been taken together as a family that it was the right thing to do.

So I put this healthy, affectionate, vibrant dog to sleep while it munched on treats and the third owner in its short life cried into his fur. Then when it was just me and the body of this poor puppy I had a good old cry myself.

I know there will be people who think I was right to put down a dog who has shown any signs of aggression under any circumstances. I disagree.

I know there will be people who think I was wrong to put down a dog when I could have taken it and found it a new home. I disagree.

I also know that there will be many many people who have no idea that this is happening all the time in this country because of irresponsible ignorant greedy people, selling dogs to irresponsible ignorant feckless people, who then pass them on to naive and thoughtless "rescuers" who eventually get to the end of their tether and bring them to me for euthanasia. All the time.

These are the dogs who bite children in the home due to a total lack of knowledge, reasonable expectations and effort to socialise them adequately.

These are the dogs whose owners can afford four figure sums to buy the latest random mongrel "breed" with a stupid made-up name, but cannot afford fifty quid to get it vaccinated, far less any money at all to treat even minor illnesses.

These are the dogs who clog up rescue centres all over the country, waiting along with thousands and thousands of others for the home with no children, no other pets and eight-foot fences, with an owner who has experience of managing behavioural problems, works from home, has stainless steel furniture and can write blank cheques to pay for the inherited illnesses the dog suffers from. Homes which don't actually exist.

These are the dogs who I have to put down because I know that it is more responsible of me to painlessly take their life than to condemn them to wait with the rest of the enormous population of "difficult" dogs sitting in rescue kennels all over the country.

Please, please, I implore you. Get advice before you take on a dog - from a vet, a qualified positive behaviourist, the Kennel Club, the Blue Cross, the Dog's Trust, the RSPCA - the information is there for the taking, there is no excuse. Go to a decent breeder, who has a waiting list, or a rescue centre which really grills you thoroughly before matching you with a pet. Find out how to bring your puppies up properly so if you do find your circumstances change then at least they are rehomable. Make sure you can afford to pay for the unexpected. Make sure your expectations are fair.

Please, because I can't keep having to do this :(

but why specifically dogs and not all animals, im sure more beef/poke/chicken is wasted eah year than dogs are killed but we don't start sobbing when we throw away out of date sausages.

pork

Yes I had 8 children and then palmed them all out to homes that would have taken other needy children in if it wasn't for my selfish behaviour using up resources from already struggling charities....good argument flatbread

whilst throwing sausages in the bin [ grin]

I agree Honeytea. My personal bugbear is when people do things with meat on tv. On brainiac they blew up a frozen chicken for a laugh. That chicken was killed for a bunch of twats to toss it about and then blow it to pieces. I was really upset. Is life so disposable?

Flatbread - your puppies took up puppy spaces at the Dogs Trust - so they may have had to turn away other puppies, because you let your dog have puppies.

And the rescue places you knew existed in Scotland would only have been of any real use if the OP was near them - for all you know, she could be in Cornwall - so was she supposed to a) ring every rescue in the country and then b) drive the dog maybe hundreds of miles to get them to the rescue?

I agree with the second sentiment Honey (writing that feels weird ), and see your point about the first. But this thread is about a dog, so focuses on dogs, but cats have been mentioned too and I think had the thread been allowed to develop as it was than it would have gone further into animal welfare. But FT wants to talk about her puppies.

I do think FT has made some valid points too, but they are overshadwed by her insistance that her situation is somehow different. If she had said do you know what, I fucked up I have been that burden, it would probably make her come across as genuine, rather than out to wind up a couple of posters she doesn't appear to like.

Rescues will often have a network of transporters who will arrange the trip to rescue no matter how far, often broken down into parts, i.e one rescuer will do the first 50 miles then hand over to a second, then a third and so on.

But still it relies on the vet having the contacts and the owner or vet surgery being willing to wait for transport to be arranged.

I do think more vets could do more to help dogs placed in this situation, but we do have to remember that rescue spaces are not infinite. There has to be a limit and this does mean that dogs will be killed for no good reason. The only way we can change this is if public attitude changes and bybs and puppy farmers are no longer funded or are outlawed.

Rescue places are full to bursting of dogs that have been fucked up. They are not easy to rehome to people who have the skills to rehabilitate them and there are far too many people who want a big dog for all the wrong reasons. It is horrific that a healthy dog was pts but I think you are aiming all your anger at the wrong person Flatbread.

Yes I had 8 children and then palmed them all out to homes that would have taken other needy children in if it wasn't for my selfish behaviour using up resources from already struggling charities....good argument flatbread

Yes, your behaviour is selfish. There are a lot of children needing care. You should have adopted instead of having your own. It is selfish behaviour.

And no one should have any children till all the ones for adoption find families, ok?

And your children, personally, are responsible for all the ills any other children are facing in the world. Every death of hunger in Africa or else where can be placed at your child's door. Because you contributed to overpopulation and you should have saved a child, instead of having your own. You have absolutely no right to be concerned about world hunger or treatment of children in care, because you have contributed to the system by selfishly having your own.

And every time your child stuffs his face with extra food, they are directly causing a child to die of hunger somewhere. The world would have been a much better place if your child had never been born. You are a hypocritical horrible person who eats children for breakfast.

Ok, sounds a bit ridiculous, right? Well, that is the same crap you are throwing at me.

To somehow label my pups as problems because I responsibly homed them through a charity is absurd. People want dogs, and they need to be born, unless we just want an aging dog population. I would much rather people got puppies like ours, rather than encourage breeders who sell pups to anyone and do so year after year. An ethical person will give their dogs to a dog centre, just as an ethical person will get their dog from a care centre. Cuts out all breeding for profit, and ensures dogs are matched appropriately to families.

I'm very tired, very smelly and not a little frustrated but once I've had a bath I'll come back and respond to a few points if I may.

Oh in that case then I am going to start breeding dogs because I would love to have a litter but I won't be causing a problem as I won't sell them but give them to a rescue centre. Biggest load of rubbish I have ever heard!

Lookbehind, I am not angry at the OP. My main point is that we need to put some system in place which does not make it easy or routine to kill a healthy dog.

I am horrified at some of the stories here. People putting their healthy dog to sleep because they do not want to pay kennel fees, or a dog chewed their rug or because they cannot afford vet fees anymore.

Surely we can have a system in place which makes it much harder to kill a healthy dog? Maybe rescues can work with vets to provide training and counselling services which have to be attended by the owner before a healthy dog can be pts? And the cost borne by the fees for euthanasia...

Human doctors guide our thinking and we think that if they are willing to do x or y, then it must be kosher, because a doctor is the professional making the decision. Same, to an extent, with vets. If people find that their vet is willing to kill their dog, without much ado, then they will think that it is perfectly ok, because the professionals have condoned it, so as to speak.

And what about the cases where you beg the owner to sign it over to you so you can rehome it but they refuse? You can't blame the vet. As said before, the owners need to start being responsible for their pets. This needs to start with the breeders!!

Anyway, off to bed now. Have a long day tomorrow and then travelling again.

This thread has been so depressing, on so many fronts. Just given my dogs an extra long good-night hug and cuddle.

I agree that you start with irresponsible breeding and selling of dogs. There are far too many unwanted dogs in this world. You don't vilify the poor vet at the end of a very sad process.

I would ban the sale of live animals on Gumtree etc for a start.

Oh I am sorry, but I just LOL at 'unless we want an ageing dog population'!! Have this image of doggies with zimmer frames, glasses and false teeth. There is no shortage of dogs, there is a shortage of good homes.

it is only in utopia that we will be able to have a situation where every single dog will find the home it needs exactly when it needs it... and where every vet has the time, knowledge and experience to be able to magic up a place each and every time an animal is suddenly brought in in such circumstances. It is not an isolated instance and it sounds like canis you halready ahd knowledge of what was available localy ......

oh and of course for anyone criticising vets.... dogs are of course only one species... it a massive database that would be required to cope with all possible species needing urgent homes there and then and every single time. Of course often vets can and do do above and beyod the call of duty for animals and their owners.... and when they cant are upset !!!

waaay back someone said ( sorry cant find now I have read aaaaalll todays posts..might even have been FB but dong know ?)
"In some way aren't vets who willingly put a healthy young dog to sleep, allowing owners a 'get-out' clause from taking their responsibilities seriously?"

some rescues could even be said to be giving breeders a "get out clause" for taking their responsibilities seriosuly... spending vast amounts of time and money taking on breeders cast out breeding bitches and puppies past the cute stage not able to be sold when space needed for the new babies !!!! NO.... just spend some time on rescue forums to see that pattern.

Am I saying that they should not take on these poor souls... no I am definately not , but just making the point that its not that simple !!!!!!

There are just not enough knowledgable homes out there for all the dogs with issues..... and unless you have seen individual dogs you dont know whether one that is described as needing a home without children has just growled to warn of invading / teasing / abusive kids .... or whether it is a full on snarling / lunging and any passing child. Any rescue centre will have to fully assess any dog said to have growled at a child to see which is which... and given the difficulty in rehoming such dogs some centres are reluctant to take them on just a phone call especailly if the situation is deemed so serious the owner thinks its so bad he cant have the dog in the home at all that night !!!

My own gsd was the more "serious" end of the spectrum... lunging at children ( or men in black ) with teeth bared but so stressed out by kennel life she was knawing her own leg. They had run out of suitable foster homes and three previous possible adoptions had failed. I was out of their normal catchement area but heard about her.

It took time, tlc and training but this wonderful dog is now cuddled by my grandchildren and will sit quietly to greet others, she can now be safely off lead, has good recall / stays etc and is such a joy. We could never ever leave her in a kennel and on the odd occasion we can afford a holiday it has to be in accomdation that takes dogs ! She will never be moved on, ever !

It should be harder to have a pet, it should not be a casual purchase.

And we are a society that routinely eats animals. We need perspective here.

mrsminerva totally agree - it is so depressing to go onto gumtree or preloved and see all the dogs being rehomed 'through no fault of their own, I just don't have time to train them' variations. Sigh.

Many people should not own dogs IMHO as they do not understand firm but fair love. I mean being in charge and they are lower members of the pack so they do as you want rather than being able to do what they want which is where the trouble starts. I have had much loved dogs over the years and they have never been in any doubt of their status in the family structure, they have been loved but they are subordinate. We saw the OPs scenario when a puppy my dog(bitch) had was given to neighbours (2 elderly ladies) who spoilt him until he bit and then the poor boy was put down. We didn't find out till after and I am sure we could have sorted the little guy out in a week or two.

That's better :)

Right, I'd really like to address a couple of points.

Most importantly one that Dooin made about euthanasia for behavioural issues. In principle I completely agree that it is generally unnecessary - of course I don't routinely euthanase dogs who growl at children. I attempt to educate the owners and help them to access appropriate support, while offering fire-fighting advice to keep themselves and their family safe in the meantime. But I can tell you, it's an uphill struggle, against a massive tide of Cesar Millan-ism and dreadful ignorance.

The above course of action was not available to me yesterday and even if it had been it would not have been the right thing to do. In that home, with their situation, the dog was a risk to the children and advice was not sufficient.

Flatbread has been the main voice of criticism of my actions, I think because she feels my actions yesterday were unethical.

I could argue that in fact they were perfectly ethical because they prevented risk to humans, prevented further emotional damage to the dog, reduced the pressure on rescues, and of course dogs are a possession in the eyes of the law and so what the owner wants is what goes ... loads of reasons there for my actions being A-OK, sleep-soundly-at-night, totally justified etc.

However, I totally agree with Flatbread that it is ethically diabolical to take the life of a young healthy dog with, in the right hands, great potential and a lot of life ahead of it. It stinks. It disgusts me. It is abhorrent, vile and wrong.

But dogs don't have any concept of ethics. They don't know about morality, about right and wrong, about the ifs, buts, maybes, whys and wherefores. That puppy only cared about its needs - food, comfort, health, interaction and security. And those needs were not being met, as evidenced by its deteriorating behaviour. In the total absence of another option I did what was right for that dog's welfare, which is an entirely discrete concept from ethics, despite the constant confusion of the two by an ignorant public.

Without going into the minutiae of this specific case, because this is about much more than a dead puppy and a sad vet, I have good relationships with local rescues. I have numerous contacts who can take dogs in when the shit hits the fan. Which is why I knew that at the time there was no room at the inn. Foster dogs are already being moved between foster homes here, to alleviate personality clashes between arriving dogs and existing ones - a situation which I am uncomfortable with as it adds further trauma into the mix for these poor bemused creatures.

I don't want to get drawn into the details of Flatbread's contribution, because I believe it detracts a bit from the discussion, but it does so neatly encapsulate the problem that I can't say nothing. Those who see nothing wrong with yet another litter of pups being churned out are clearly failing to grasp the enormity of the problem they are causing. Such a fundamental lack of understanding means that further argument is pretty pointless - it would be like trying to teach a retriever the offside rule. We can toss the football around but we will never get them to see sense.

I can sleep at night. I hated what I had to do but I knew it was the right thing. I won't beat myself up about it, and I have broad shoulders. Sadly, as Honeydragon has seen, not everyone manages to sustain a positive frame of mind in this profession (see link about research into the high suicide rate among vets) - I know of two colleagues who have taken this final course of action :(

Anyone who can see what a burden is carried by those of us at the sharp end, and then still accuse us of being responsible for the problem, well, I have no words for them.

mrsminerva with respect, you have just beautifully illustrated my point. Dogs do not bite because they don't know their place in "the pack". This "pack" does not exist. It probably bit because it was stressed out, or because someone punished its (perfectly reasonable) warning growl with a smack ... the suffering inflicted on this most forgiving of species because we humans are seemingly incapable of grasping basic information about their motivation makes me despair.

canis

Thank you for coming back.

I agree with your last point. There is a man I have seen twice now with a gorgeous 8 month pup. He lets it off the lead to play and every time it growls or barks at another dog being rough, he tells it off and smacks it

I've tried pointing out that its normal doggy behaviour and how rough the other pups play (bity face, ear tugging, ham stringing etc), but he thinks as he has dc's the dog shouldn't growl or bark. In other words, he's teaching the dog that if it feels it has to bite it should give no warning.