My friend's ds has autism, she would like my ds to spend more time with him.

[BatwingGirl]

I find this very unfair on ds (6) as he has made other friends at his school who want to come round and play. Both boys have pretty much grown up together, seeing eachother since they were babies. They go to different schools but as her ds has become older, it's become more challenging to have a decent playdate without tantrums every 2 minutes. I've tried to see my friend more while the boys are at school, but she tries very hard to time it for after school so that the boys can be together. I didn't want to say it to her and have said I'm busy after school, weekends I've stopped going out with her and the two boys as there will always be a scene in town. She ends up leaving him with me, walking off in a temper herself. It's very stressful.

For the last few weeks she has been coming round with some excuse (to see the kitten, to see the new rug, they made biscuits) and I can't exactly say no. She asks my ds to play with her ds (7) in his room. I don't like them being out of my sight as I know her ds can get very aggressive if he doesn't get his own way. My ds who does not know about his condition ends up very frustrated and scared. I'd like to keep my friend but not force my son to have to be his friend if he doesn't want to. I know if I say it to her she will really take offense. She feels like she has no one else and other mums from the school have dumped her since his diagnoses.
I just want an easier life. When Ds's other friends are round, they are like angels compared to my friend's ds.

He probably is doing well at school, my son is: in some ways. In others not at all but can you imagine how I would end up if it were all I focused on? As for pushing etc- maybe she knows the whole story? I said earlier that kids with ASD were more likely to be bullied: perhaps this is the case? DS1 could be a bully, but that didn;t make the other kids angels- especially when 12 of them got together and beat him so hard he had shoe shaped bruises; or charged him money from his lunches in order to be allowed to play. Even now I have moved him to an ASD Base he gets messages on his PC and via siblings challenging him to a fight or threatening him: even shouted up at the window at times. Kids also will often know how to push a child with autism to get a reaction for their own amusement!

She DOES need to get some help, sounds like she is on a journey of denial and acceptance that many of us will identify with. I don;t think though you can maintain your friendship without promoting interaction between the children, at least you wouldn't with me, no way would I stay friends with someone who actively didn't want their child to be around my children. OK ds1 is aggressive and I get that, but ds3 gets treated the same way and he is the most gentle loving child that exists.

You did post in AIBU: read the heading.

Hey, OP, don't feel bad. There is nothing wrong with being honest about your feelings and your concerns for your dc. It was predictable that your thread would turn into an attack on you as this type of thread usually attracts lots of interest from parents of kids with SN. Nothing wrong with that other than you perhaps don't get a cross section of opinion. MN is not generally a bun fight per thread! Yanbu to want to remain friends with someone whilst minimising contact that makes your son feel unhappy or anxious.

Batwing, I am horrified, tbh. With no malice intended, please don't inflict your views on your friend any longer. Nothing worse than someone who 'empathises' with you until it affects their little world of perfection.

Peachy put it so nicely. Yes she does, we were I denial for a long time. Abey she does not want professional involvement as t confrms that her ds has autism and sees it as an intrusion. I guess people were upset as they are going through it personally, and you came across in your op as unsympathetic and a bit harsh

Talk to your friend then and tell her how you feel that it is too much pressure for you and you can't cope. Are there any ASD support groups/play groups/respite anywhere that can help support your friend and take some of the pressure of you.

But peachy if I told you genuinely from the goodness of my heart that my ds doesn't enjoy playing with your ds, (and you know this because you can see this) but we can meet up when the kids are at school and he's certainly welcome to come to my house for ds's birthday party and go swimming together on Thursdays, if our friendship meant anything to you and YOU enjoyed MY company because I make you laugh, we do wonderful things taht take your mind off stuff, we talk about our hopes and dreams and our dh, we support eachother in other ways, would you throw away OUR friendship? Does it have to be all or nothing? Did my ds get signed into your family?

I've hoovered. I've calmed down :)

VenusRising Tue 16-Oct-12 13:40:25
that has to be the sickest post ever

Zzzzz, calm down! I said there was nothing wrong with parents of SN children attacking op. Of course you are entitled to your opinion a d it will be coloured by your experiences. Threads like these often don't get much of a cross section response though so Op just gets shouted at post after post! I think she was looking for help and suggestions rather than an ongoing kicking.

But peachy if I told you genuinely from the goodness of my heart that my ds doesn't enjoy playing with your ds, (and you know this because you can see this) but we can meet up when the kids are at school and he's certainly welcome to come to my house for ds's birthday party and go swimming together on Thursdays, if our friendship meant anything to you and YOU enjoyed MY company because I make you laugh, we do wonderful things taht take your mind off stuff, we talk about our hopes and dreams and our dh, we support eachother in other ways, would you throw away OUR friendship?

I would be utterly flabbergasted if you said that to me -it's beyond insensitive, and no I wouldn't go near you if you said that. My time when the kids are at school is very precious, I don't spend it with people who won't see me for the difficult bits.

How on earth could we talk about hopes and dreams when you had made it clear you don't want your ds near mine (and fwiw - only inviting to a birthday party is a terrible idea if you are dealing with a child struggling with impulse control).

My experience of issues with SN/NT kids has been mainly from the NT side for the last 8 years or so (no problem with ds1 who is a teenager, we've worked out his social life and who we allow to see him a long time ago - he doesn't set foot near people who can't cope with him and I can't remember the last time we had any sort of issue from friends). I have to say I have been utterly disgusted recently by the views of some of my 'fellow' NT parents towards classmates with SN or other 'issues'.

Batwing, you need to talk to your friend. Whether she likes it or not. She's in denial so she needs help in coming to terms wih the diagnosis and accessing support. You are clearly not interested in continuing the friendship as it stands, so what do you have to lose?

I suspect you could both do with some education on ASD and how to help both her and her son best. Look into the organisations mentioned, talk to her about it. Talk to your son about it. You must explain to your son about disabilities and tolerance. I thought that was just standard anyway.

This situation needs tough love and masses of support and understanding.

Whilst I agree with stuntgirl that the friend sounds in denial, as someone who knows nothing about autism I'm not sure OP is the right person to do the tough love routine. There is nothing worse than someone who hasn't got a clue lecturing you on what you should do.

The fact that she isn't speaking to you about it may mean that she is processing it and dealing with it. When I had concerns about ds1 I only ever spoke to one friend as she was the only one with any sense. The others either had ridiculous opinions, played down what I had to say, looked embarrassed or acted like it was contagious. If they asked me anything I shut down the conversation as I didn't want to discuss it with them. I wasn't in denial, it was too raw to discuss with people who didn't 'get it'. I found a few other people going through the same thing and saved my discussions about ds1 for them, and the one local friend who was rock like. Then binned the ones who looked embarrassed and couldn't say the 'a' word.

Honestly? I wouldn't feel I could talk to you about the boys, and I would almost certainly end up wondering in paranoia about whether it was just about the autism- because nobodiy exists in isolation and many previous experiences would feed into my interpretation of what you are saying. And you know, I have not yet managed to miantain a close friendship with someone who does not want to be around the boys: they are part of me, apart from school we are always together- holidays etc- so it would into work anyway. The boy's asd has become part of me, who I am; how my family dynamic works. What I study, soon possibly where I work: where and when I can socialise, how my life will pan out (my ds3 won;t leave home for very many years if at all)...

My long term friends get that: they don;t have disabled children (yet, nobody knows what tomorrow brings after all) but they apply understanding. Ilive3 away now but even then when I see them it's as if we were never separated: I saw one for her 40th two weeks ago, a safe environment whre ds3 could dance as amusingly as he wished without judgement, where ds1 could sit alone at a table and nobody would mind. Where ds4 could scream if he wanted (not as much as usual thankfully) and people understood.

These people have been in my life since I was 11. It was amazing. But other friendships have not been so resilient- because people perceive the boys as odd, becuase they can;t accept that I need to watch 13 year old ds1 as if he were a toddler, because they too have a child with a lesser SEN and move on once they have their fears settled or a DX, going back to their NT world. Those friendships are enjoyable but transient: for a proper relationship it's us as a family or not at all. Dh is very different and has no friends with Sn knowledge and I feel sorry for him, because it's my experience that ASD isn;t a diagnosis abut a lifestyle that you are forced to accept: if ds1 screeches around my friends they tease him about it, if he does it around dh's - well the worst one was where some sent their same age children to stone him, then kicked off when he responded like the trapped animal he must have been and hit back.

'my ds really doesn't get on with your ds, but we will still do swimming with you and your ds can come to birthday parties so long as there's a crowd, so can we just meet one to one during school hours'

Good point.

Also, imagine (horrid that it is) that your son, or your next child if you plan one, becomes disabled: how would you like their quirks and needs to be handled? Remember to build love into it: logic rarely applies to these situations! Live up to that.

There's a meme going around today- George takei just posted it- what is love? (by a six year old girl) 'love is when you are missing some of your teeth but you are not afraid to smile because you know your friends will love you even if your some of you is missing'- yes, that. Or, accepting people for who they are regardless of them stimming a bit or flapping. Aggression is different of course, and needs dealing with but supervision counts for much. it may be that you just not in love with this woman, you seem to think you give her so much- make her laugh etc- what does she give you? I doubt she wants to be a charity case

Oh, OP, I really feel for you.

I have a DS with a DX of HFA. He is hard work. I actually logged on to start a thread in AIBU about 'If you don't have a child with autism, you have NO BLOODY IDEA what it's like to have a child with autism'

I have been in some very very lonely places, have lost friends etc., because of my son's condition. But that doesn't invalidate your feelings or mean that your DS has to pick up the slack. What you do have to do is talk to her. ANd (depending on where you are) put her in touch with some of us.

There are groups that can help. WHere she won't feel stressed, feel like storming away etc.,

It's not the nicest thing to have to discuss, but it will help her and help you.

Can I ask, outside of the kids: Do you want to stay friends with her?

I also have the impression that you really don't want to be friends with her-or rather, she is okay but her son is too much like hard work, and that you are looking for an out.

Damn us parents with our SN and ASD kids.Maybe we should have them all locked away

This thread makes me really sad.
I too am socially isolated by NT parents having 3 kids with autism. They veer hard away from us.

Attitudes on this thread such as ASD being akin to bullying don't help too, they just further the social isolation.

This is why I am now spending as much time as I can with parents who also have kids who have SN. They are so much more accepting and open minded.

YABU. My older brother has autism. My mum said that she found out who her reals friends were, as various friends cut her out, as they couldn't cope with my brother.

I think it teaches your son to be kind and understanding, and should be encouraged. Have some compassion.

I haven't read the whole thread.

OP, why haven't you told your son about the child's diagnosis? He is not too young to understand at 6. And it would help him to know that this boy is disabled - there is a reason for his behaviour.

Tbh, although I think it is wrong of your friend to 'leave' her ds with you, you sound as if you just can't be bothered to help your son understand about disability because you only want to mix with NT people. That isn't a nice attitude.

Yes you haven't answered te question why haven't you told your ds that your friends ds has a sn terefore he behaves in this way it will help him develop a sense of empathy and compassion towards others, isent tt wht you want?

Probably at the moment your ds has a very negative view of him. Kids aren't stupid they understand more than you think