to be concerned about 16- and 17- year-olds being able to vote in the Scottish Independence referendum?

[Foibles]

My son (17) has just brought home a school magazine written by his fellow sixth formers. It has Alex Salmond on the front page, his arm round the magazine's 'politics writer', a boy who is a fervent supporter of Scottish Independence, and who has written the leading article. A lot of space is devoted to the arguments in favour of Scottish Independence, which are very enthusiastically put, but lip-service is also paid to the Unionist side.

The front page article about independence continues inside the mag, where there is also an interview with Alex Salmond. In another piece a teacher gives his own pro-Independence views.

These young people are living in interesting times, and it is important that they engage fully with this debate.

AIBU to be concerned that these people are not getting the full picture?

That's kind of ironic, considering the whole West Lothian question.

Brycie In Scotland you can, hence the whole Gretna Green thing.

Yup, Independence would solve the whole West Lothian question quite nicely.

Oh fair enough then. Well there you go - let's hope a bunch of teenagers make the right decision for you all! It smacks of desperation a bit but the indies are quite behind in the polls so you can sort of undertand it in that case.

It wouldn't certainly stop the English being ruled by the Scottish and not having any say over the border. I can't see anyone objecting to the unfairness of that being removed but I haven't seen that many Scottish MPs complaining about it so far.

At 16 you can leave home, get married, start a family, get a job and pay tax. (and a slew of other things)

Maybe legally, but doesn't mean it's necessarily a good idea. ( except the job/pay taxes bit). I don't know many people who would be delighted if their 16 year olds did all that.

DD2 will be able to vote in the referendum she is excited about it they are doing it in modern studies ATM not sure most 16 yr old will be able to make an informed choice they may suprise us though I just think it is SNP way of getting all the votes they need,

Surprise*

as a parent of teens in Scotland, it worries me that they will able to vote on this. with a few noble exceptions, most of them don't have a clue about and aren't interested in the wider politicall picture - why should they be, they have more important things like Facebook, and shopping and chasing girls/boys!
Most of them believe that Braveheart was historically accurate - as do many adults - and the vast majority of them (and again, adults) couldn't name any Scottish politician other than Alex Salmond who "is the wee fat guy who looks like Shrek, yeah?" according to my daughter.
So a ton of public money is about to be spent by both sides on cancelling out each other's arguments over the next two years, to win a vote from our current 14 year olds. Scary

If you're really worred about what the 16 and 17 yr olds are going to vote then there's just one answer - get out and volunteer to help get others out and vastly outnumber them. That's democracy.

If all the 21+ people vote and some of them help the 60+ people with mobility issues to use their vote then the youngsters will barely count statistiscally.

It's a new kind of democracy, one that hasn't been democratically agreed to, like a backroom deal. If a whole new suffrage is to be created, there needs to be more consent than this, not just a little deal.

I am not really worried about them voting as I do think the ones who will vote are the ones who are interested the other 16/17 year olds won't bother I just think snp are a bit desperate It is all to do with 16 yr olds seen as 'adults' in scotland they can marry so why not vote it has been an SNP campaign for years,

My sisters were taught in Modern Studies that independence would be a terrible idea, that Scotland would be screwed financially, that it was much better to be governed by Westminster. They were also told by an MSP that it would be a terrible idea for 16 year olds to get the vote because they were not mature enough to make decisions.

Yes, my daughter came home with similar views, which made me wonder where she got them from as we are in favour of independence in our house.

I have no objection to 16/17 year olds voting.It is one of the most important votes that your young people should make and they should have a say in it.

My daughter will miss the vote as she wont be 16 till the following month after independence. I shall encourage her to read the issues and read both sides.

Yes it does make me think, how desperate are they?

Outraged you want every Scottish person to admit they are xenophobic?

Giving the vote to 16/17 year olds is an snp policy and has been for a long time.

I think it's fantastic that they will get a say. Many are working and paying tax to a government they don't get a say on. How is that fair?

If you don't think you're children know enough, or don't give a shit then it's your job to educate add ignite a shit about their future.

Or tell them to vote for what you want, then you get two votes

Desperate for what?

I had this argument with FIL last night. I think that if a 16/17 is old enough to get a job and pay tax then they have the right to have a say in their future.

He didn't

DD2 will be 16 in the feb and the vote is in the may ? she has some opinions
on it but it all seems to be coming from her M S teacher and not from her own POV. we will see how she does in her standard grade if I let her vote or not

Desperate for YES votes mrskeith

I support independence, and can assure you I do NOT have a xenophobic attitude towards the English. That would be a bit hard since I was actually BORN south of the border :o., but brought up here.

Yes there are some ignorant fools that do,But there are racist people everywhere, and I have encountered anti-Scottish feeling down south as soon as they hear my accent, But I shrug it off as ignorant eejits. It is possible to be a nationalist and not hate anyone south of the border. And I personally thought Braveheart was an awful film.So there!

Have to disagree that many 16 and 17 year old in Scotland are working and paying tax. Not in this part of Scotland they ain't!

I would have concerns about 16/17 year olds voting, TBH. Despite all the posters saying that 16 yo have a right to decide their futures I would be much happier if they had to wait til 18 (which is, after all, the age when one is officially considered adult). I have taught secondary school for many years and have not come across that many 16 yo who are particularly mature or particularly well informed, particularly politically. Some may be. I can assure you that the vast majority are not. You may, indeed, be able to start a family at that age, but being able to get pregnant doesn't necessarily confer wisdom upon you. You can also get pregnant at 14 or 15. (Or even younger). Very few 16 year olds are tax payers. Dept for Education figures show that 78.8 % of 16 - 18 year olds in the UK are in full time education or training and that 9.4% are 'NEETS' (not in education, employment or training). Therefore only 11.2% of 16-18 year olds are actually working - and the vast majority of these are actually already 18. My fear is that very few 16 and 17 year olds would be able to hold a reasoned argument about the long term implications of Scottish Independence.

My fear is that very few 16 and 17 year olds would be able to hold a reasoned argument about the long term implications of Scottish Independence

Going by the threads on here, neither can most of the (presumably adult) posters. You can't reasonably say a certain level of intelligence/awareness/experience is a prerequisite to vote - where/how do you draw the line.

In Scotland 16 year old can, without parental permission get married and work. So they should be able to vote.

Yes many of them are NEETs, or still in school. If they are not educated to vote that is a problem with the system, not with being 16.

For me the issue is how to ensure that people are properly equipped to vote - whatever their age - ie that they can get hold of the information they need to make an informed choice.

Last elections I tried hard to get hold of a clear and concise manifesto from each of the main parties. I couldn't find any that were up to date except for Labour, iirc (though maybe I'm not that good on the internet).

What I thought then was how good it would be if each of the parties put up a poster with a list of their top ten priorities, instead of (or as well as) the picture of the person they wanted us to vote for.

In some ways 16 and 17-year-olds are in a good position to be well-informed, as most of them are still at school. But because they are young, most of them will, presumably, be more vulnerable to the sort of ideas peddled by less scrupulous teachers.

On the whole, however, I think I trust the teachers not to try to influence them.

But I don't think 16 is old enough to vote.