Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To refuse the offer of a bible from local church for dd to commemorate starting school?

259 replies

Norfolkbumpkin · 15/10/2012 15:01

I have just received a round robin email from the school where dd has just started in reception. It says that as per the last few years the local church will be giving each child a bible to commemorate starting school, and to advise the office if for any reason you do not wish for your child to have one. I have replied saying no thanks as feel rather uncomfortable with this, but is this normal practice? I know that the school follows the standard guidelines for R.E. etc, but I am aware that the deputy head (who teaches one of the reception classes) is very active in the local church. She runs bible lessons after school one afternoon a week, and the church have an active presence at the school by doing the gardening in the flower beds and odd maintenance jobs. Am I reading too much into the bible thing or is it a tad pushy?

OP posts:
clemetteattlee · 15/10/2012 20:27

Really. Which book do you think my seven year old COULD read that was as inappropriate as a slasher film??
She reads the Children's Bible for goodness sake. You are sounding pretty hysterical! Which themes ARE appropriate in your mind? It's just that she has a bit of a thing for wizards, fairies and magical ponies and I am now worried that is the equivalent to a snuff movie in the minds of the permanently panicked...

eBook · 15/10/2012 20:28

What version of the Bible will it be? If it's a full version then presumably it's a keepsake for when they are older, and they did say it was to "commemorate" so maybe it's not meant for just now? Or maybe it's a picture version with very simplified stories, which would be fine for this age.

garlicbutty · 15/10/2012 20:30

I agree with those who've said knowledge of the bible is necessary to understand vast chunks of our culture and history - also that you don't get much culture at all if you edit out anything nasty! Himalaya, the church's publicity material would be worthy flyers and Alpha brochures, not a significant literary work that is pivotal to so much of our lives. My sibs and I managed to grow up free of sky fairies despite having an ordinary English education, bible-bashing grandparents and many copies of gospels & suchlike around the house.

noblegiraffe · 15/10/2012 20:31

Oh I see, Clemet, despite you calling the Bible a historical document that it is important for children to read and to be knowledgable about the stories it contains without policing them, you don't actually let them read it at all.

You let them read a heavily edited and fluffy version with all the really nasty bits glossed over or left out.

designerbaby · 15/10/2012 20:35

a) Not sure where this argument is stemming from? Nobody is suggesting the labelling of children, Merely providing the opportunity, should their parents agree, to receive the book around which our society was founded. And every parent imparts their beliefs/ideologies to their kids, one way or another. I don't 'label' my children' CofE children'. Are you suggesting Christians do?

b) ah the old religion vs. evolution chestnut. I am both CofE and believe in evolution, sorry not to fit into your convenient box. A view supported by the Archbishop of Canterbury, although his views are rather more nuanced than most. If you think there's a conflict between the two, then you've probably been reading too much Dawkins.

c) Actually love the atheist bus campaign. "There's probably no God". I actually thought that was hilarious.

I only became aware of the controversy from the atheist buses onwards though. (I never saw any of the first set, despite being a regular bus-user, not very memorable perhaps - or maybe I blanked them out!). I feel a bout the original crew probably something like moderate Muslims feel about Abu Hamza. That they're less than helpful, to put it mildly.

Anyway.

Tolerance and understanding of other people's religions might extend to not banning your children from reading the sacred texts of other religions though, surely? If my children would like to read the Koran, or the Humanist manifesto, the Gurū Granth Sāhib or anything, then that's fine. I'd be happy they wanted to engage with the question of spirituality (or lack of) after which they'd be better placed to draw their own conclusions.

The OP, on the other hand and several others on here are advocating censoring her children's exposure to such texts. Which would be a shame, I think.

db
xx

clemetteattlee · 15/10/2012 20:39

It is an historical document that it is important for all PEOPLE to read and understand, just as the Magna Carta is. They haven't read that in its original yet - their old English is not up to it...

LonelyCloud · 15/10/2012 20:42

Norfolkbumpkin - having read some of the later posts citing the more unsavoury parts of the Old Testament, I'm wondering - did the school say what type of Bible they were giving out?

i.e. Children's Bible, New Testament, St James Bible or whatever.

Children's Bibles tend to have much less focus on the bits some previous posters are objecting too.

ChickenFillet · 15/10/2012 20:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

clemetteattlee · 15/10/2012 20:44

Indeed Chicken and think of the violence in fairy stories. All that infanticide. I hope parents are being vigilant.

noblegiraffe · 15/10/2012 20:46

My children's bible had the story of Jezebel being eaten by dogs in it, accompanied by a graphic picture. Put the fear of god into me, it did. I expect that was the aim.

I don't think that the aim of the church in giving young kids a bible is for them to study it as an interesting historical document. Get 'em young is probably more like it.

garlicbutty · 15/10/2012 20:48

I'm with you, db - not in faith, obviously. I've read most of the world's significant religious texts, not always in full but including ancient mythologies (ie, religions that are no longer followed). I find it adds to my comprehension of the world around me and how it got this way. They are also poetic, thought-provoking in places and surprisingly similar in interesting ways.

I've got a carved crucifix, a Young Buddha, a set of worry dolls, some voodoo charms and some things made with traditional islamic geometry. They don't have any power, though part of their beauty comes from the powers some people ascribe to them. I'm glad I understand why they are as they are, and can appreciate them as objects. Life would be a bit two-dimensional without spirit.

ChickenFillet · 15/10/2012 20:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

garlicbutty · 15/10/2012 20:50

YY, Chicken & Clemett! Fairy stories are just another mythology. Most kids like being scared, don't they? I've never grown out of that ...

LonelyCloud · 15/10/2012 20:55

On that theme, ChickenFillet, my mum gave me a book of stories (childrens versions) about the Greek and Roman gods when I was a child.

They had plenty of violence in them. Although a lot of the veiled references to gods merrily raping and murdering and transforming poor mortals on a whim went mostly over my head at the time. And these gods were all worshipped within the Roman Empire, at least until Christianity took hold.

aldiwhore · 15/10/2012 21:00

I've read the bible. It was great. I have also watched horrible histories. It was great. I have a degree in Arty History, that was great too.

Human kind is full of stories, most of them involved some kind of awful nastiness, because you have to have comparison.

I distinctly remember going to Sunday School and hearing the story about Daniel and the Lion Pit... I did a little tole play with treacle the hamster and Sindy. Sindy won, just like the good lord said!

I learned many lessons. As I grew up, I learned the meaning to the stories, and most of them are understandable and interesting even if I am not a Christian, many of them have a common sense theme (don't murder, don't shag your mate's wife etc., ) and if nothing else are brilliant stories... yes there's a lot of darkness in the bible, a lot fo stuff I still think WTF?! WHY did you have to flood the entire world just because your kids weren't doing it right? I wouldn't get away with that.

I made me think. At a distance. Without a bit of outright evil, good is shit. The Bible covers both angles. (Although I never could get away from the fact I felt sorry for Satan just for arguing with God - best friend banished by a control freak).

Anyhoo. I hope my children feel the same. They aren't labelled. I was NEVER referred to as a Christian child and if I was, as an adult I can always say "nope, that's just not me".

CrikeyOHare · 15/10/2012 21:05

All the RE teachers my DS has had have been atheists.

I think some people are being a bit disingenuous here. Let's be clear - the church are not giving this book away to the children because it's an important cultural tome, it's because they want them to join the gang.

If this were ANY other institution or group, it would be propaganda. If the Labour party showed up with a manifesto, we'd be hopping mad. Or how about the Scientologists with one of their batshit crazy books? The assumption on the part of the CofE that their particular holy book is somehow more special than any of the others is rather arrogant.

ChickenFillet · 15/10/2012 21:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

clemetteattlee · 15/10/2012 21:12

I agree it's a propaganda exercise... But the fear of that particular piece of propaganda is way beyond a rational response (which would be, in the OP's case either: yes please or no thank you.)

CrikeyOHare · 15/10/2012 21:15

An awful lot of back pedaling there, Designer.

First you said: Presumably if I was a marxist, humanist or whatever, I would have no problem with my child identifying themselves as such. What an odd idea/campaign... You've managed to miss the point of the campaign entirely - it's not about children labeling themselves, it's adults doing it for them. So, you agree that children shouldn't be labeled now - so not such an odd campaign then?

You also said: As for Dawkins, he is pushing for children to be taught his preferred ^theory to the exclusion of all others, including the Church of England's version(s) of events. None are yet proven, The CofE's "version of events" is evolution. And your assertion that evolution has not been proven could not possibly be more wrong. I suspect, to be honest, that you don't really understand what the term "theory" means in science.

ChickenFillet · 15/10/2012 21:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

clemetteattlee · 15/10/2012 21:26

What rubbish. Many Christians dont even believe in hell.

Norfolkbumpkin · 15/10/2012 21:27

I have just sent a polite email saying no thanks for the bible, and will just leave it at that. I do wonder what the take-up would be if we had to opt in to receive a bible, rather than opt out.....

OP posts:
CrikeyOHare · 15/10/2012 21:27

Is not just propaganda you can say no thanks too.
It's join us or rot in hell.

Yep! "Now then children, God loves you very much. But he is somewhat lacking in self-esteem, so we should warn you that if you don't love him back (because that's really all he wants) he's going to burn you in a pit off Hellfire for all of eternity. Now, now...stop crying -it's all for your own good. You were born sinners, I'm afraid, so God has no choice". (All said in best Joyce Grenfell voice).

Hmm
CrikeyOHare · 15/10/2012 21:30

Many Christians dont even believe in hell. Indeed. In spite of the fact that Jesus was quite explicit about hell. But what would Jesus know, eh?

ChickenFillet · 15/10/2012 21:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Swipe left for the next trending thread