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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to thank that my nephews university womens society were wrong in..

83 replies

Immycupoftea · 13/10/2012 14:56

My nephew is a fresher at a University in Kent. In an introduction speech to a large hall of freshers the Womens Society officer proclaimed that "All men were potential rapists" AIBU in thinking this is not a point of view to express to 18 year olds. I realise we all have to be careful, but....
I must add this was not an employee of the uni, just a society officer.

OP posts:
lottiegarbanzo · 13/10/2012 18:03

So essentially, YABU to think ANYTHING is 'not a point of view to express to 18 year olds' (i.e. young adults), especially when those 18 year olds are university students. All speakers, including lecturers but especially other students, are free to speak as provocatively a they like, within legal limits, and should always be listened to with an open but critical mind. Your nephew will get used to it.

flow4 · 13/10/2012 21:08

This is a real old chestnut. Every Women's Society at every university in every year since 1978 has made a speech that includes the statement "All men are potential rapists".

It is a phrase first coined in Marilyn French's feminist classic novel "The Women's Room", by the mother of a young woman who has been raped. (Though I doubt most students these days realise that!)

It's a piece of polemic - a rhetorical claim - just like "Meat is Murder" and "The only good Tory is a dead Tory" and "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others". Grin

Like other rhetoric, it contains some truth, yet is not entirely true. People who say it generally mean to highlight some facts: that rape is an abuse of power in sexual relationships; that rape is more widespread than people think; that almost all rape is perpetuated by men; and that 80% of raped women know their rapists, so it's unlikely that you can tell which men are dangerous and which are safe.

Also like other rhetoric, it's intended to grab an audience's attention. Some listeners will be outraged, some will be hooked, some will think it's ridiculous... In a world where 18 year olds will all (almost without exception) have been exposed to images and descriptions of graphic violence, heads exploding, war, casual images of death, political scheming, global exploitation, sex scenes, and indeed probably scenes of rape, it seems a little odd to want to protect them from ideas - especially ones as obviously simplistic as this one...

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 13/10/2012 22:19

Great post flow.

GhostShip · 13/10/2012 22:38

Thanks for that post flow!

I do still think though that some people make take it literally. I'm 21 and have 18 year old 'aquaintences' who I can imagine now saying 'a woman told us that all men are potential rapists and that'

flow4 · 13/10/2012 22:43

Thanks, Doctrine and Ghost :)
I'm sure you're right that some people will take it literally, Ghost. There are people who are certain that the Apollo moon landing was faked, too! Wink Grin

flow4 · 13/10/2012 22:55

Sorry Ghost, that sounded dismissive, and I don't mean to be. Blush In my opinion, bits of polemic like this are interesting and sometimes even useful, because they catch the attention of people who would otherwise be apathetic and not bother to form an opinion at all. So the acquaintances you have who might say "Women think all men are potential rapists!" are likely to be those who would not otherwise have even considered the subject of rape, let alone reflected on their own sexual behaviour...

GhostShip · 13/10/2012 22:55

But the flag waves and there's shadows Shock

WorriedBetty · 13/10/2012 22:57

Typical woman's officer, in my recollection! Bet she kicks men in the shins if they smile at her Grin

WorriedBetty · 13/10/2012 22:59

Al-so.. maybe its because of Wine but I can't help thinking of a men's officer standing up and saying 'just remember guys, every girl you go to bed with could put a finger in your bottom whilst you sleep... just saying..' Grin..

GhostShip · 13/10/2012 23:01

Worra I think some men might get excited at that thought... Some I know anyway!

Alliwantisaroomsomewhere · 13/10/2012 23:35

lovebunny : "thinking of how a man would sound saying 'all women are potentially up for it, so watch out, they might take you by force'. "

COMPLETELY different. If you think about it for a minute, maybe two, you will realise the difference. I hope!

Alliwantisaroomsomewhere · 13/10/2012 23:38

I love Flow4. Completely. Undeniably. Utterly.

Grin
Alliwantisaroomsomewhere · 13/10/2012 23:43

Knew I should have read the whole thread first - Grin at WorriedBetty!!!

WorriedBetty · 14/10/2012 00:23

Just out of interest, do you think a University Lecturer should be fired if he was viewing pornographic videos on a University computer, in view of students, for two and a half hours?

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 14/10/2012 00:29

Worried wouldn't he have been in breach of the university IT use rules, along with his other misdemeanours? That would be a firing offence at my work whether anyone else observed or not.

WorriedBetty · 14/10/2012 00:44

Well this is a case at the University of Warwick - a lecturer, in engineering I think, was watching porn for two and a half hours, and was watched doing so by students, and he wasn't fired.

flow4 · 14/10/2012 00:54

Awwww shucks, Alliwantis Blush Grin

Pictureperfect · 14/10/2012 01:01

Maybe it went onto be a good lecture, there was a campaign a little while back saying you walk into a brothel a man and might walk out a rapist as you don't know if the prostitute is there willingly or by force.

Bluestocking · 14/10/2012 10:53

Fab post, flow4!
"WorriedBetty*, if this really happened, and you know who the lecturer is and the date and time on which it happened, you should report it to the Head of IT at Warwick, who is easy enough to find on Warwick's web pages. PM me if you can't find him and I'll send you his email address. This is something universities take very, very seriously.

grovel · 14/10/2012 15:52

This happened at my DS's university when he was a fresher a couple of years ago. The Womens Society officer went on to talk about sexual harrassment.
A boy asked for guidance as to when a man could use a spontaneous show of affection on a date (take a girl's hand, put his arm round her shoulders) without the risk being accused of sexual harrassment. The officer said that this should never happen without the girl consenting first. Most of the female students took exception to this and a huge row erupted (the male students just observed).
Not easy - but on reflection but I'm glad the debate took place and got the students (of both sexes) thinking. So I'm with flow4.

PumpkinPositive · 14/10/2012 16:10

Under Scots Law, I believe, a woman who is an accessory to rape would be charged with rape. (Re English Law, wasn't Rose West charged with rape back in the day?)

WorriedBetty · 14/10/2012 17:08

Oh the University were very well aware of it. It was witnessed by students, including him returning from a coffee break and continuing to look. His excuse was that it was an accident.

grovel · 14/10/2012 18:17

WorriedBetty, where was he watching the porn? In a lecture theatre?

WorriedBetty · 14/10/2012 18:43

I don't think so, I think it was in an open study area because his excuse was that he found the porn in the internet history accidentally... but then watched it for 2 and a half hours Hmm

grovel · 14/10/2012 20:57

They must have got very lax contracts/procedures.

He's an adult. Porn is not illegal. Presumably he was not supposed to be teaching at the time?

The problem then is inappropriate behaviour - hard to nail.

Sad.