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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not feel as sympathetic towards this friend as I probably ought to?

59 replies

designerbaby · 12/10/2012 19:41

One of oldest (but probably not really 'best' any more) friends has just had her DS2.

Her DS1 was by emergency CS because of undiagnosed breach presentation, about 9 months after my DD1 (51 hours of labour and forceps 'carnage'). She was very upset at the time, and I was sympathetic.

Even when she said how "unfair" it was that I hadn't had a CS even though she was "clearly better at labour" that I was, and how I "couldn't hack the pain" and she could. (I was in the midst of PND at the time so this wasn't very helpful.) She was also disappointed because she had wanted a girl, and a bit pissed off that I had a daughter and she a son.

Then she was pissed off because I had a second DD two years later, and it took her about 6 months longer than she wanted to get pg a second time...

This time, she's been going on and on about how she really wanted a VBAC and really wanted a girl, and that the worst thing ever would be to have "another bloody boy and another bloddy CS". I can understand not wanting another CS, not so much the boy/girl thing.

She went four days overdue and was on the phone every day really angry that things weren't going according to her plan. She did go into labour naturally, but after 12 hours or so of painful labour and an epidural, things stopped progressing and she ended up with the section she was so desperate to avoid.

Naturally it was also another boy.

I spoke to her about 24 hours later, all she could do was complain about having another "bloody boy" and that she could have coped if she's had a boy naturally or a girl by CS but to have both the things she "didn't want" is so awful. etc. And that her labour was the worst ever, that she she knows she's not like me with a "really low pain theshold" because she's done it before, and that it actually WAS really painful. (WTAF?)

I'm a bit gobsmacked by the stuff that's coming out of her mouth, TBH, and don't know how to react.

i know she's disappointed. But she has a healthy, beautiful baby boy, FFS and she hasn't mentioned him once, which is the saddest thing.

I'm both concerned for her mental state but also think she's behaving like a collossal brat, frankly.

And that the constant putting me down isn't really acceptable. I know I had two DDs 'naturally', but it's not like I've sailed through the whole thing... Extended third degree tears, PTSD, PND, haemmorages ? not really stuff worthy of her envy/spite.

This is also to the backdrop of close friends of both of us, who just lost one of their prem twins at 9 weeks old, (delivered at 30 weeks) barely 3 years after they lost their DS1 (born at 26 weeks) at 5 weeks old. They'd gve their eye teeth to have tow healthy, full term baby boys.

I want to feel sympathy for her ? the friend with the two DSs ? but finding it very hard...

AIBU?

How would you handle it?

db
xx

OP posts:
Original poster
designerbaby · 12/10/2012 23:16

Sir Boob... That's actually really helpful. Thank you...

OP posts:
Fabulousfreaks · 12/10/2012 23:23

She really sounds as if she is suffering from pnd dating back to her first baby. I think she may really need you now.

Original poster
designerbaby · 13/10/2012 09:17

Fab, do you think that PND can manifest as being, well, a bit of a cow for four years? And hyper-competitive?

My experience of it was different, but I guess it can manifest in any number of ways...

Certainly she still seems bitter about her first birth experience and maybe that's clouded everything else... She certainly seemed very detached from her DS1 until he was about, well, three.... if I'm honest. She'd say things like "DS you're SUCH A PAIN - you were even a pain before you were born..." Which chilled me to my bones.

db
xx

OP posts:
RollerCola · 13/10/2012 09:40

It's very easy to walk away from people who are acting unreasonably like this, much harder to confront them to find out their deeper issues.

But ultimately if you do the former you may never see them again, & if you do the latter you may help someone who is ill and they may thank you forever for it.

Or they may just be a complete arse Grin but if you don't confront her you'll never know. I'd don a protective suit & speak to her. You may get a fiery response but as someone up thread said, it may help her to see her own life differently & open up to you.

If not, THEN you can walk away.

SirBoobAlot · 13/10/2012 09:41

That's really sad. Being depressed can certainly lead to insecurity, which in turn leads to being competitive. And if she hasn't received any hep for it, it may well have just continued.

There are birth trauma teams that you can discuss your birth with - do you think that might benefit her?

DesperatelySeekingSedatives · 13/10/2012 09:41

Avoid her like the plague, she is being utterly horrible to you!

However, she does sound like she might have depression (the negativity is a big giveaway). Hopefully she has good people around her who will get her some help (if she is indeed depressed) or tell her to STFU if she's simply just a cowbag. My money is on PND though.

Tailtwister · 13/10/2012 09:42

Some people always seem to find the negative in everything. They think that life is a competition (earnings, house size, birth, children etc). What they don't realise is that nobody else is playing or even aware there's a competition at all!

Your friend sounds like one of these people OP. Unfortunately, I also think there's some kind of MH problem going on here too, which makes her behaviour even more extreme. Her attitude towards her baby does sound worrying and could be damaging to him if she continues in this vein.

What would I do? Well, the sensible thing for your own sanity would be to leave her to it tbh. However, if you're feeling strong I would try to talk to her. See if you can encourage her to speak to a professional about the way she's feeling.

plutocrap · 13/10/2012 09:49

Why do you feel you ought to be sympathetic? Maybe you owe it to your friendship and your own conscience to be supportive (which doesn't necessarily mean nice: it can mean giving her a kick up the backside), but this guilt is entirely misplaced.

If you do feel guilty after any confrontation, sadly, you have another friend (and probably more than one) who needs you at the moment.

simplesusan · 13/10/2012 09:49

She sounds awful.
Either suggest she gets help or distance yourself from her.

JustSpiro · 13/10/2012 09:50

YANBU to feel how you do, however...

...I think birth experience is a very personal thing, and it can't really be compared to what has happened to other people, so as OTT as she sounds (and the personal comments are definitely out of order) I'd be inclined to cut her a bit of slack on that front.

On the whole I think she sounds desperately unhappy and the only way to move forward is to have a reasonably gentle but very honest discussion with her and get it out in the open. If she admits she is struggling and needs help, you can try and support her and hopefully the friendship will recover in time. If you get a load of self-pity and verbal abuse back, you know it's time to call it a day.

Frontpaw · 13/10/2012 09:51

She doesn't know what she wants in life, does she? If she'd had a girl, that would have probably been a Big Drama too. She sounds deeply unhappy, and unless you are prepared to have a big heart to heart, then I'm afraid you'll need to back away.

JustSpiro · 13/10/2012 09:54

Also agree with what SirBoobALot said re birth trauma.

Mine wasn't great (also ended in EMCS) and I felt very upset, angry and bitter about certain elements of it until the HV brought my notes out and went through them with me when I was diagnosed with PND.

My perception of what happened was quite different from what actually went on and it really helped me come to terms with what I had previously thought was a combination of my failing and bad decision by the medical team.

JaffaSnaffle · 13/10/2012 10:15

I'm so sorry you have to listen to this rubbish.

She sounds incredibly self absorbed, and unless she is ill, I'd have to talk to her about it.

Births, early days with a newborn, it's all tough, and a good friend would be supportive, not knocking others down. It's such a stupid thing to be competitive about because so much is out if your control.

Don't let her jealousy and insecurity get to you or make you feel bad about the joys you have in your life. You haven't stolen them from her. And try and direct her to talking to a counsellor who might be able to
help her untangle some of her problems.

Laquitar · 13/10/2012 12:06

What about her dh? Is he aware about how she talks about the boys? Sad

Original poster
designerbaby · 13/10/2012 12:55

Yes, he must be... She says all these things in front of him. Also that she blames him for the 'boy genes', because he's one of three boys (she has a sister...).

He's lovely with their DS, which is a blessing, and he's home a lot, do does the lions share of the day to day.

He's just given up, I think. Keeps quiet just to keep the peace, most of the time, but I know they have blow ups. I don't know if he things she has MH issues...

OP posts:
KatyPeril · 13/10/2012 13:00

She sounds like a massive cunt. Get rid.

QuintessentialShadows · 13/10/2012 13:03

SirBoobalot speaks a lot of sense.

Call her on her bitchyness and tell her that what she is saying is nasty, and not at all normal, and ask her to tell you what is going on.

Be ready to tell her straight that you wont take her crap any more and walk away.

waltermittymissus · 13/10/2012 13:04

DB it sounds like you don't just want to bin her and after years of friendship, I can understand that.

But you're not obliged to put up with shit either!

I would tell her. Tell her she's being a cow. Tell her she's draining you. Tell her how lucky she is to have a healthy baby and how horrible she's being (who slags off their own newborn ffs!)

If she's ill, it could be the opportunity she needs to speak out and the jolt she needs to get help.

If she's just a Class A bitch she'll probably blow up at you and end the friendship anyway!

purplehouse · 13/10/2012 13:04

I would distance myself personally. Regardless of the reason, there is only so much you can do for someone.

waltermittymissus · 13/10/2012 13:05

Ah. X post! :)

Original poster
designerbaby · 13/10/2012 21:22

Some pics on facebook - she's smiling at least...!

And she's had to have a blood transfusion, so feeling a bit guilty for being pissed off at her, clearly she's had a rough time.

A transfusion isn't usually required after a CS is it?

I had one after my PPH with DD2 but that was only because I lost over half my blood volume, I'm shocked at the thought of that much blood loss in what I would imagine is a 'controlled' situation. Maybe I'm ignorant/naive though...

Arranging a visit next week. Which will be too soon to take her to task in any way but ought to give me an idea of how she is, and how she's behaving to her boys.

Maybe the lovely baby will soften her up, (second time lucky?)

db
xx

OP posts:
snooter · 13/10/2012 21:42

Who slags off their newborn ffs?

Those with postnatal depression - I think this woman needs a lot of help

QuintessentialShadows · 13/10/2012 21:49

Go see her, bring her some nice body lotion stuff and a box of dark chocolate (great for iron) and some nice lovely present for her baby.

Just be there for her, to start with.

WhereYouLeftIt · 13/10/2012 22:19

Regardless of whether she is depressed or not, she is an adult. Her son, on the other hand, is a very small boy being told by his mother "DS you're SUCH A PAIN - you were even a pain before you were born..."^.

Fuck, that chills me to my bones too, OP. Sad

I really think you have to call her on this - maybe along the lines of what she thinks is going to be the consequence of this behaviour of hers.

Part of me suspects that she is just a bitch, who is showing her true colours. You mentioned that you were now earning more than her, but that this is a recent state of affairs. I do wonder if she was able to be lady bountiful 'friendly' as long as you were her 'inferior'. But now that she can't quite pidgeonhole you that way any more, she can't quite manage friendly. She has to be the top dog, and the sort of things she uses to measure this (money, career, possessions) do all scream 'shallow' to me. She seems unable to appreciate the real worth of healthy children, a loving husband and financial security. Bit of a bitch.

Original poster
designerbaby · 13/10/2012 23:36

You mentioned that you were now earning more than her, but that this is a recent state of affairs. I do wonder if she was able to be lady bountiful 'friendly' as long as you were her 'inferior'. But now that she can't quite pidgeonhole you that way any more, she can't quite manage friendly.

Whereyouleftit - I have a horrible feeling that in regards to our friendship you might have hit the nail on the head here...

Her attitude towards her children, well that's different. And far worse.

I'm a grown up, They are 4 years and 4 days, respectively.

Now is definitely NOT the time to call her on the latter. But it might be necessary to tackle the way she feels about her children sooner rather than later.

The two are separate issues, which may or may not have the same root cause, (unhappiness/depression) I guess. But probably need different handling at different times.

db
xx

OP posts: