To be not entirely keen to look after my Grandma

[StWinifred]

My Grandma is 100 years old and rather debilitated, although fully compos mentis.

She was being looked after her by her son, who had lived with her for decades. He had a heart attack in the 1980s and I think the strain of looking after his Mum did for him, and he suffered a fatal heart attack in July.

Since then my parents has been looking after her, in her home, which is a largely original 1930s house.

She went to stay with my parents in their own home (an hour or so away) for a few days a month or so ago. She found this a bit disorienting but they were grateful to get home; this was curtailed when she had to go back home for medical appointment.

A few weeks ago my parents wanted to go away so they asked if I could help, I said she can stay here (in our hours for a week), but there's no way I can go there because of various prearranged commitments locally, school, etc. They didn't think this was a good idea.

My sister proposes early on that she should stay in her home as she has been in the area since birth. My sister has been with her partner (she doesn't believe in marriage I think) for a decade and has no children (doesn't believe in this either). Her idea was that we (my parents, my sister, and I), should look after her a couple of days per week each.

Due to work/childcare I can only do this over the weekend. Last weekend I headed there at 6pm (takes about 1hr 45 to get there) on Saturday and got back home at 5:30pm on Monday to pick up the kids from school. My sister was there from 6pm Monday till 8am Wednesday, working from home Tuesday, and I think planning to on Wednesday also in future, though she had a meeting on Wednesday so left early - in future she might be there until afternoon/evening though.

My father said he thinks I shouldn't go every week on Saturday as it would be disruptive to our family. I haven't made any commitments.

Anyway he called on Tuesday to ask what time I was coming on Sunday, and I said I didn't know I will let you know at the end of the week. He called me today at 11:30pm to ask the same, sorry I don't know, does it make any difference? Well we were thinking of going away for a couple of days, he said. Oh really?

He then sent me a rather nagging email saying they would appreciate a routine, and also could you come round and stay with the kids during half term to balance your sister's 'input'? (My DH has work to go to, locally, so it would be me + kids.)

I replied saying sorry I can't give you a routine after only one visit there, it ain't routine yet, and I'm not about to promise to match my sister, what she does is what she can do, and she's got her circumstances and she mine, and actually I didn't really feel the house was suitable for kids when I was there.

Grandma can't make it up the stairs, so she sleeps in the living room, and there's no toilet down stairs, so there's a commode there. She's got severe incontinence so lots of pads to dispose of, plus the commode to empty. She tends to fall over and she can't be left alone at home for more than about 2 hours. She needs her breakfast, lunch, dinner prepared, plus tea, drinks, etc.

They've been in this house for nearly 3 months now and they have no bed, just two very old 'small single' mattresses on the floor. Apparently they ordered a bed from Homebase but it takes 3 weeks or something? Anyway, I thought this was ridiculous, so when I was there on Saturday I went to a local shop and they said they could deliver a bed on Wednesday. Passed this information on to my father and apparently he couldn't get through to them on the phone, so er, still no bed for me to sleep on this weekend.

There's another empty bedroom for the kids (but no bed) but the window frame is rotten and there's a hole in the window.

My DH doesn't like this arrangement at all, and thinks Grandma should go live with my parents, and that it's their responsibility to look after their mother.

My father OTOH seems to think that its our collective responsibility (the four of us being her only direct descendants), and on that basis I should tell him what I'm doing and when, and not only that but try and 'make up' days that I haven't done (when compared with my sister) because childcare in the week is not practical.

I have told him several times that my DH is not really happy about the situation/disruption to family life (e.g., last Monday and foreseeably all future Mondays was disrupted because I had to get up at 7am to give Grandma her breakfast, after she was up till 00:45 watching TV the night before, and then I had to cycle 12 miles to get to the station to get home, and was way too knackered to cook a meal for the family, or to work with my DS on his 11+ preparation), but rather than taking the attitude that 'you are helping out, thank you very much', it seems to be more a case of 'why aren't you doing more'.

I am not really sure if IABU to be resentful of this attitude.

My parents have never told me what they are doing in advance, they will just do it on the day, and I have followed their lead, so if they want to know for instance what we are doing in half-term, I will tell them the day before, because that's when I will know myself. If they want to go away or something, then give me the dates and I will try and help, but it seems like they just want to go and do some gardening at home, ok well you don't need two weeks notice for that do you, and actually perhaps you can get a bloody bed in before I come round again.

It really isn't as easy as some people on this thread are making out. If the grandmother herself puts up a fight against going into a care home (very likely in this case as she is mentally sound and wants to stay in her own home) SS will consider that to be her decision, they cannot force care on someone if they have mental capacity. If carers go in and she refuses their care, there is nothing that can be done. If she has mental capacity then SS generally don't care.

The problem is that the grandmother will collude in her own abuse if she wants to stay in her own home.

Not a case of being ashamed. Granny is quite happy with the fact that she is in her own home, sees her family far more often than before (with the exception obviously of deceased son), and gets fed better to (deceased son was a hopeless cook and forever buying Tesco Value stuff).

Compared with my other grandmother, who lives with her son, there is a sense that she is better off, in that the other grandmother moved 200 miles away to be there and has no connection with the places she lives, whereas my Grandmother has lived in the same area for 100 years.

And also she is fiercely proud that she is of sound mind, if not body, and does the crossword every day, and so on, and doesn't want to be in a home with demented people.

I always said to my father when asked that she should go live with them while the house was made habitable, it was my sister's idea to have us all coming round. Now it seems that my mother, who has for many years been a fearful person (she is apparently afraid of flying, though she has never told me so, and despite going on dozens of flights when we used to live abroad), can't mentally cope with having her at their house, while my Dad I believe is very much looking at this on the basis of every week Granny stays in her own home, that's another £xxx not spent, and he gets through it that way.

So I can of course say 'I'm not coming any more', or 'I will come round once a month only', but that's then a case of me refusing to help my parents, and doesn't do anything for Grandma at all.

I'm not quite sure how long it would take to convert the attached garage into living accommodation, but I suspect some little while.

So basically between my two parents there is a perfect storm of inaction - my mother paralysed by fear of losing her mother, and my father counting the pennies saved, and so with 'no alternative', I just come across as a selfish arse if I don't acquiesce to their demands to come round very regularly.

You are in an impossible position and your first obligation is to your own immediate family.

Could you talk to your granny about some of the homes near her? Could you visit some? My nana did have dementia, but in the home she was in there were clearly 2 sitting rooms and dining rooms, the non-dementia paitents where kept separately (unless they wanted to socialise with the dementia sufferers, or if they were all in the big garden). It wasn't a case of being surrounded by people who's minds had gone, there were a lot of older people who were still all there mentally together.

The fear of the care home,being with people like that and treated with no respect, doesn't match the reality, if you pick your own rather than just ending up with social services taking the decision for you, normally after a hospital stay. Could you put it to your gran as her making an active choice rather than leaving it to her (rather useless) DD and SonIL, or social services?

Your sister is like mine - domineering, and putting you down. IMO it is not the grandchildren, and especially those with small children themselves, to be given the responsibility of looking after the grandmother, it is her children's.
Does she not have any other children?

No, her DS1 killed himself in about 1989, and her DS2 just died this year.

So mine are her only great-grandchildren for instance. We just had lunch (me and my Grandma), she said 'your mother bought those carnations last Sunday'. I said 'I was here last Sunday, it must be have been Monday', she said 'Yes you've been two consecutive weekends now.
I'm very well looked after.'

I agree it?s not so simple when she wishes to stay in her own home, and think family dynamics may be the biggest issue, but I wonder how much of your reactions are to do with learned helplessness in the face of them? I?m not asking you to answer that, just consider it.

There seems to be a complicated set of relationships in your family, and your dad seems to feel it?s very important that you?re all totally woven into a web of complicity to support them, though I doubt he means to.

You seem to see your sister as the problem, though it's your mum who's actually ruined your plan for her. It seems lots of people have plans about Grandma, and have not consulted each other over them, (never mind her) is that right?

It strikes me that however much you care about Grandma, she may be a scary old matriarch who must be pleased, to others and it may be were some of the family dynamic is coming from?

It feels like paths of least resistance are defining what will happen?

She could be staying in her home in considerably more safety and comfort, but as we?re about to have the worst winter since she was born, so if someone doesn't take steps to ensure she is safe and comfortable, this problem may not be with you for long.

An average double garage can be converted to reasonable living accommodation in 3 to 4 weeks. (2 for a single) In London turning one into ?bedinshed? is a 10 to 12 day turnaround, but both these times are plans, an application, and actual building conversion times, but not planning agreement.

Bollocks, digerd. When my grandfather fell ill and needed 24 hour supervision, I moved in with him to provide the bulk if it. We paid carers to sit with him during the day, because I was also holding down a full time job. I did it for two and a half years. I stepped up to the plate because I lived him and wanted the best care and life for him, and did far more for him than two if his four children. It was hard, but we became even closer in that time and I was proud that my input enabled him to stay at home until he died, he wanted that. I treasure that time with him, it was so special, and I don't regret or begrudge an ounce of the effort.

IMO if more people rallied round when older family members needed them instead of frantically trying to make it someone else's responsibility, society would be nicer. Other cultures seem to manage it.

Some people really don't have the energy to be a full-time night carer for an elderly relative and hold down a full-time job.

Did you have your own family at that time, Welsh?

"The problem is that the grandmother will collude in her own abuse if she wants to stay in her own home."

I think the problem is as much that OPs parents seem as happy to live in squalid(?) conditions rather than pay out.

If Grandma refuses to move, then alterations to the house MUST be put in place & carers employed to fill the shortfall where the family can't help.

The situation sounds untenable. When dh's mum became completely senile - when her husband (dh's stepdad) finally admitted that there were some problems - we called social services for advice. They have been reallly really helpful. There was little they could do or provide as dh's stepdad refuses to talk to them, but they advised us of the things which were needed, or may be needed in the future.

As a result, MIL has a woman who comes in everyday and gets her washed and dressed, does a load of washing, ensures there is food, and probably other things as well. She is paid by sFIL who grumbled A LOT at first, but is now rather pleased to have her, as his life runs more smoothly.

Social Services, Vulnerable Adults. Talk to them.

your dad sounds absolutely awful, counting the pennies he is saving by denying your gran decent care

I hope you remember this when he becomes old and needy, and he needs money spent on improving the quality of his life

and sorry, but your mum's not much better - what do you mean she is fearful? fearful of losing her mum? her mum is 100 yrs old, does she think she'll live forever?

your parents need a good boot up the arse

I completely agree that this commitment (and even the expectations alone) on you is untenable. You have dependant children, you live an hour away... providing this care is not your responsibility. BUT making sure there is adequate care IS. You're bemoaning your Mum and Dad not doing anything to change the situation, but apart from thinking of stepping aside, you aren't either. When are you expecting the situation to change?

If you don't expect your parents to step up, why don't you? Anonymous report to the Vulnerable Adults part of Social Service, plus a report to the GP.

StW, if you change nothing, nothing will change.

Close your eyes. It's three months from now. Picture what should have happened and what will have happened. How do you get from the second to the first?

Have you talked to your DSis at all, as one or two posters suggested?

WelshMaenad Sun 02-Dec-12 16:02:03
"Bollocks, digerd. When my grandfather fell ill and needed 24 hour supervision, I moved in with him to provide the bulk if it. We paid carers to sit with him during the day, because I was also holding down a full time job. I did it for two and a half years. I stepped up to the plate because I lived him and wanted the best care and life for him, and did far more for him than two if his four children. It was hard, but we became even closer in that time and I was proud that my input enabled him to stay at home until he died, he wanted that. I treasure that time with him, it was so special, and I don't regret or begrudge an ounce of the effort.

IMO if more people rallied round when older family members needed them instead of frantically trying to make it someone else's responsibility, society would be nicer. Other cultures seem to manage it."

My MIL did this for her MIL as a young woman- and then realised that her small son was suffering from the situation to the extent where he was turning into a fearful and timid little boy. They moved out and her MIL had a trained nurse instead. When MIL told this story in later life, it was always in the context of realising that her first duty was to her child.

I remembered this when MIL herself became ill and frail and we were struggling to find a suitable solution for her. I love her dearly and would very much have liked to have had her with us- but it would have made me completely incapable of doing the right thing by my own children, including my dd who is disabled and as much in need of special care in her own way as MIL herself. BIL/SIL were having the same thoughts but worried that MIL wouldn't be safe on her own in the house while they worked.

(In the end BIL managed to find a very nice care home where MIL is far better looked after than she could ever have been by either of our families)

So the OP is supposed to leave her family and go move in with Granny and provide 24-hour care or she's a self-absorbed cow?

Or the alternative is to force Granny into a care home against her wishes.

The woman is of sound mind and seems to be enjoying the current set up. If you ask her you might find she wants to take the risk of a hard winter there.

But it is not reasonable for the OP, her DH and DC to be pressured into taking on this burden.

I don't think anyone's saying OP has to live in with Granny & give up her family or she's self absorbed.

She MUST make a stand against her parents and not allow the situation to continue as it is.

I've read the first couple of pages and this page so I've probably missed some crucial elements but here's what I would do. Sit down with your DH and decide what is a reasonable arrangement that suits your family, allows you to have an adequate home life while still caring for your grandmother who you clearly care for.

Return this to your parents and sister saying that this is what you can offer and all that you can offer, and any arrangements outside of that can be decided between them. Explicitly outline times where you can't be there like duringthe summer etc. Then remove yourself from it. There is a saying on here, 'no' is a full sentence.
I hope you don't mind me saying, but from your posts I'm guessing you are getting into all sorts of conversations with them about the wherefores of it all. Don't. Be direct and to the point. Don't enter into any discussions about it. 'This is what I've got and this is all I've got.'

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Quite, Horsemad. I was just addressing the 'grandchildren shouldn't be responsible' comment. FAMILY need to be responsible, it's what you do when you love someone, isn't it? Taking responsibility for this woman's wellbeing doesn't require total self sacrifice, I don't think that's what I've said at all.

NannyOgg, no I did not, though I did have my husband (then partner) and cared for Grandad several nights a week throughtout my pregnancy with my eldest, until I was signed off work with encroaching pre eclampsia at 32 weeks. Sadly he passed away very suddenly the night before she was discharged from NICU and that fact that he never got to meet her still saddens me. By this point we were hiring nursing staff to care for him overnight due to his deteriorating health so it wouldn't have been feasible for me to return to caring for him, but if it had, we'd have made it work somehow.

"When my grandfather fell ill and needed 24 hour supervision, I moved in with him to provide the bulk if it....
IMO if more people rallied round when older family members needed them instead of frantically trying to make it someone else's responsibility, society would be nicer. Other cultures seem to manage it."

Are you seriously suggesting people in general should move in with their grandparents to look after them? What about their own families? Surely it's the norm for the oldies to move in with the younger generation, not the other way round. The younger ones are the ones with jobs to go to, children to look after etc. All the grandmother is doing in this situation it seems is staying in her house being looked after, which she could do anywhere.

I'm saddened by this thread.

Not because of what you are doing OP, I think you are doing what you can in difficult circumstances. I'm sickened by your parents attitude.

They are not doing what is right by your Grandmother, your father 'counting the pennies' and not wanting any impact on their inheritance is disgusting.

It's true that no one can force your Grandmother into a home if she has mental capacity, but she should be having carers going in to help her or your bloody parents should be doing it. They are fit enough.

So many elderly people are admitted to hospital for not being able to cope at home. She could seriously injure herself. If she is found to be living in squalor and her next of kin (your mother) knew and did nothing about this, I hope to god SS and the Nursing staff put a POVA on them. Your Grandmother will be protected from their bloody selfishness and money grabbing.

They wouldn't see a penny of that inheritance then.