if you voted for the Tories, you should feel personally responsible when you see homeless people on the streets ...

[aufaniae]

...once their policies start to bite.

They want to removing housing benefit for under 25s, many of whom have children. Just one of their policies which will drive people into homelessness.

I thought this was meant to be a civilised country. If the safety net is removed, many people including children will fall through it, some of them ending up on the streets.

How can anyone support that?

At anyone moment in time there are x amount of products on sale. If more people have more money then there is more demand for those products. Individual capitalist will raise the prices. As prices rise in one area they are apt to push all prices up.

That though is only one side of the equation because capital creates demand even where there is none?????

Do you know what - I'm actually yearning for the post-war years spirit - although maybe actually living it for real was horrible.

Maybe we should all look after each other better, grow some of our own food, make do and mend.....all that jazz.

Personal responsibility is great, but I think a responsibility to each other is just as vital.

Thanks, Mini.
I was doing well until your last sentence!
Is that like money burning a hole in your pocket? You just have to spend it on something?

My problem is more with people that are classed as 'economically inactive'

Many multi generational "economically inactive" got that way because Thatcher waved her handbag and stripped them of their livelihoods. Some areas of the UK are just as she left them, desolate broken places where whole families live on benefits, lack any insight into work or ambition. They have few role models and no incentive to work. They have poor health, they have little hope, they are failed by failing schools and their children know nothing of life outside of that broken community.

outraged this thread was originally about people being made homeless by scrapping HB for the under 25s.

That's why I am specifically talking about HB.

So, I take it you are against the proposal to take HB away from under 25s then?

I would not rely on any taxpayers cash to support me if I had a choice. At the moment I don't and we have a system in place which supports me financially.....if practical support was available I could return to work. But the Govt is cutting services right left and centre so not a prayer.

If DS had normal needs I would be in work still and he would attend the after school club.

This is why I get so angry about people smugly saying "you should have planned" and thinking that because their life is rosy everybody else's could be if only they had made the same decisions/plans etc.

Anyway,...off this thread now.....making me feel jaded, too many here who resent me and others in my position for having the nerve to claim benefits.

Or they have unrealistic ambitions and role models....becoming a footballer or model.

For the last time.

I am not rich. I can't afford to buy a house or get married.

I have support in place if I was to fall on hard times and yes I am lucky in this regard.

I do not have a problem with those in genuine need of benefit support I do however have a problem with those who blatantly abuse the system and those who have children in order to get an income rather than working and saving to be able to have a family.

I'm sick of seeing people with x amount of children queuing up outside job centre with no intention of finding work when there are couples who spend their life savings etc on ivf but cannot get pregnant when they could provide good financial stability.

I don't think it's fair the country is in debt and wages are too low, rent to high etc but that is the reality we live in so people should learn to live to their means and not beyond them. That's all I do.

I don't know anybody who gets ftc/wtc who does so because they aren't entitled to it. Its true many restrict hours of work who receive these benefits but it doesn't pay to take extra hours and childcare in most peoples position. I know families who are actually worse off not even breaking even if they take more hours. I doubt even you lot who work full time and receive no benefit for work at a loss.
It is not the claimants fault and as soon as some people on these threads realise this the better the conversation will be.

Happy, being sensible matters to others too, and many have been sensible in their choices but situations change. It is wise to cover all eventualities but some people aren't afforded this luxury in life.
Being nasty to people isn't going to change the situation, showing compassion for those less fortunate than yourself would be a good start.

Jake if you read the thread you will see that I think caters shod receive far far more than they do

Carers should - stupid phone

Fairyjen

The people you talk about are a minority, but I can promise you that soon there will be alot more of them.
People can't live within their means this is the problem. You obviously can and you should be thankful its not you (queing ?) up everyweek.

I am thankful however I am upset that people judge me for being in this position.

minouminou, capital creates the social conditions (super structure) and the material( structural) conditions of all of our lives. It also creates need. One of the really startling things when you study economics is that welfare and capitalism go hand in hand. Welfare does not exist outside of it. The first form of welfare (state education) came about because of industrialisation.

Capitalism creates needs. Also it creates the social conditions which lead to consumer demand such as nappies, formula, microwave meals because the worker must acquire these things in order to make himself available to the demands of capital upon his time...work.

bit much, CagneyNLacey, to categorise voters that way, but as someone else has stated, this is hardly worth being classed as a 'debate'

(Oh, FWIW, I didn't vote for anyone, and have not done for some years, though I might now I have moved home, not that it will count much anyway, given the overwhelming support of the sheep locals for one particular party, no doubt).

MimiTheMinx, I am pleased to see you here :)

Perhaps you can help explain to this lot that making people destitute isn't going to boost the economy.

Thanks for that, Mini.
I'll have to go off and find out more for myself now.

I would help more but it would be biased it is fascinating and what is more.....it makes sense of every aspect of our lives.

If we make cuts to benefits that have a detrimental impact on what money people have that is disposable income we are stuffed....that is each and everyone of us stuffed.

This is happening already, isn't it?
People aren't spending due to worry, and the IMF has forecast a 0.4% market contraction?

Sorry MiniTheMinx I don't mean to throw the burden onto you!

But I reckon this thread could do with some big ideas :)

The attacks on supposedly feckless individuals is starting to grate.

Fairyjen
Can you see the irony in your last post?

Yes people judge you because of your position as you judge others in their position. It upsets them too.
There are people who have no intention of working but from what I have seen they are a minority of the many claimants needing support.

Some of these real needy people will object and be upset about your comments of providing financially for children. Of course they want to provide for them. I don't know how old you are Fairy but not too long ago children were taken away from their parents if they had no money. I am not having a go at you and I'm sorry if I have upset you at all.
I get carried away at some of the bigoted comments on here.

Fairy, if you really do want to understand, please watch Cathy Come Home. I played this film to my A level Sociology group many years ago and they really couldn't cope with it, some the mums it affected drastically. If we are not careful society will end up like this again, please don't be one of them.

Or alternatively we could return the money to those who originally earned it and they could choose how to spend it!

The attacks on supposedly feckless individuals is starting to grate.

Not as much as your utterly unfounded and ridiculous accusations of racism are grating.

Ah, cross posts!

The system we live in is based on growth (whether that's a good thing or not is debatable, but another story ...)

If people are made destitute en masse, others are at fear of becoming destitute, people are not given support to develop their potential (and therefore earn more in the longterm) and generally people are not spending money, then the economy will surely sink!

We need people to spend to keep it all afloat.