if you voted for the Tories, you should feel personally responsible when you see homeless people on the streets ...

[aufaniae]

...once their policies start to bite.

They want to removing housing benefit for under 25s, many of whom have children. Just one of their policies which will drive people into homelessness.

I thought this was meant to be a civilised country. If the safety net is removed, many people including children will fall through it, some of them ending up on the streets.

How can anyone support that?

I can't help but think that the Olympics was all just bread and circuses, though.
Anyway - like I said, I'm an economic idiot - I've read through this thread with great interest and attention, but I don't want to introduce a load of fluffiness in, as I really don't "get" economics. I try really hard to.

I'll leave now, and let those more in the know get on with it.

I can't vote for the Tories in this part of the UK, but had I been able to in the last general election I would've done and probably would do again. What other viable option do we have? The lesser-spotted Labour Policy is a rare beast there days.

This is a proposal, and Cameron has already said that there will be exceptions to the cut-off. Until there are more details as to what these will be then I think I'll cool my jets when it comes to pearl-clutching.

Labour have admitted that cuts would have to be made to the welfare budget, but have yet to release details of where they would attempt to make savings. So they can sit and point fingers at the big-bad Tories without having to alienate their core vote.

I know we're utterly skint, and I know that lower and middle income families and people make up a big wedge of the tax haul so there's a lot to be had from hitting them.
What I'd like to know, though, is if the amounts of tax etc NOT paid by big companies and the high value individuals is protected in any way.
Why can it not be recovered - at least in part? Has it vanished into the ether?

Also, this 50 trillion dollars of capital that's got nowhere to go - what's the deal there?

I said I was going, didn't I?

I'm still here though....

aufaniae
I'm against the under 25s thing. I thought age discrimination was illegal!

As to whether it would cause homelessness - not sure. They are removing the automatic right to social housing for under 25s. I suspect that means most people staying in their childhood bedrooms, while people who would otherwise be homeless will be eligible for social housing. So it depends, basically. Sensible scrutiny of the details from opponents, or a legal challenge based on discrimination, will probably help more than hysterical scaremongering.

Separately, the welfare cap is common sense, of course.

MrsBethel Oo course it will cause homelessness.

Not everyone has a parental home to go back to. Many people don't have parents. Some have parents who are abusive.

And those who do have parents, if they've already left home then their parents will have been made to downsize anyway, if they're also in receipt of HB. Their parent simply not have room for them. Or they may have moved abroad.

Or one of many other reasons - use your imagination - sheesh!

Also, please remember we are talking about families here. A young person may have left home as a single 18 year old, and there may be a sofa available for them at their family home now that they're losing housing benefit aged 24, but is a sofa good enough for a 24 year old with children? How about the 22 year old sibling, who has also started a family and are loosing their home at the same time - where should they go with their children? In the bathroom perhaps?

You say "people who would otherwise be homeless will be eligible for social housing". Social housing is paid by Housing Benefit. I have seen nothing to suggest that there is an exception to the rule for people living in social housing. They are talking about taking Housing Benefit away for all under 25s - the only exception I can find reported is possibly for care-leavers. I do hope they realise that putting children on to the streets is a step too far, but there is no evidence of this to date. Certainly the homelessness charities are taking it as a serious threat to young people - including families.

I know it's hard to stomach, but this proposal really will lead to homelessness, including for thousands of children. How could it not?

The welfare cap will lead to thousands being pushed out of central London. Taken to its logical conclusion it will create ghettos at the edge of town (like Paris) and reserve the centre of town for the rich.

This is neither a London I recognise nor want.

The problem is a lack of social and affordable housing.

I wonder if the bedroom tax will free up some three and four bedroomed houses that are occupied by just one or two people. It might not help a jobless graduate to see his family home sold off, but it could bring more decent housing stock back to the market.

No, if under 25s would be homeless without HB, I'm pretty sure they will get HB. If the details are any different, I'd be bloody gobsmacked.

I'd wait until the details are released. All you're doing now is attacking a big straw man.

FWIW, I'm against it because it discriminates against the young. But they ain't gonna be on the streets begging either way.

MrsBethel I'm glad you find this abhorent, as it plainly is.

The charity sector and the serious papers are certainly taking the threat of homelessness for under 25s seriously. I'll repeat the following for your benefit:

Here's an open letter to Cameron from many UK charities (published in the Times).

Sir,

The Prime Minister?s proposals to cut benefits for under-25s will have a disastrous impact on thousands of young adults, especially at a time of record youth unemployment.

Tens of thousands of young people simply don?t have stable family and friends to go back to if they lose their job or fall ill. Young mums and dads, people whose parents have downsized or those who have experienced family breakdown will be particularly affected.

You don?t root out any excesses in the system by abolishing an entire safety net for young people. They too pay into the state safety net when they are working in the belief that it will be there for them when they need it. Evidence shows that when young adults claim support, many will need it for less than six months before they get back on their feet and into work.

We welcome open debate about the challenge of giving young people a fair start and making work pay. But with these ill-conceived proposals, the Prime Minister has gone too far.

Yours,

Anne Marie Carrie, Chief Executive, Barnardo?s
Seyi Obakin, Chief Executive, Centrepoint
Matthew Reed, Chief Executive, The Children's Society
Leslie Morphy OBE, Chief Executive, Crisis
Jane Slowey, Chief Executive, The Foyer Federation
Fiona Weir, Chief Executive, Gingerbread
Matt Harrison, Interim Chief Executive, Homeless Link
Campbell Robb, Chief Executive, Shelter
Jean Templeton, Chief Executive, St Basils
Ian Green, Chief Executive, YMCA England

"But they ain't gonna be on the streets begging either way."

What makes you think that? This government are taking away the safety net. There was a massive rise in homelessness under the last Tory government, and there will be under this one too, because of their policies.

In fact there has already been a rise in homelessness as a result of changes in HB policy.

Private landlords are profiteering from housing benefit.

That's what will happen when you sell of social housing. The Conservatives wanted the rental market privatised.

But they're not talking about taking away the safety net. That would be the withdrawal of HB for everyone under 25.

They are talking about taking away the automatic right to HB for under 25s. So you only get it if you're out of options. So the only bit left is the safety net.

Of course the charities are against it. Not because it will increase homelessness, but because it's 'their sort of people' who will lose out.

It's wrong, of course. But the biggest mistake the left can make is to get hysterical, construct straw men, and put forward illogical arguments. Because if they do they will be ignored.

MrsBethel do we live on different planets?

There is no automatic right to Housing Benefit at the moment. You get it based on need.

The are talking about taking away Housing Benefit for pretty much under 25s. If they don't intend to do it for everyone, then why haven't they announced that?

It would be heartless to let hundreds of thousands of families worry unnecessarily wouldn't you say?

"Shelter said that according to the latest Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) figures from June, cutting under-25s' housing benefit altogether would affect 385,000 households, 53% of whom are couples or single parents with children. "

The policy as announced at the moment is to take away HB for all under-25s, including families, including those with no other options.

How would they measure if you had other options? How do they know if you have family / a friends with a suitable bed? That would be an administrative impossibility!

I cannot fathom how they can get away with age discrimination?
Surely penalising certain groups of people is prejudice, i thought it was 2012 a time when ethnic groups, the disabled, the elderly and the young were not allowed to be discriminated against?

This opens the doors up to discrimination, a thing of the past. What will be the mext group they decide against, worrying old fashioned times

Next

charlearose that is about the current rules, which mean that under 25s can get only the equivilant of a house in a shared property.

Not the new proposals to get rid of HB for under 25s.

I really hope they do see sense and exempt families from it, but there has been no announcement to this effect yet.

Thanks for the link though :) useful to see how they define it currently.

I think they're testing the waters and they'll amend the policy according to the responses they get.

Apologies, just realised I'm on a machine without a spell checker! I tend to type fast and let the auto spell checker pick up the mistakes. Will have to concentrate a little harder!

Fwiw, HB is not automatic for ANYONE!
You have to apply for it by filling in a form, and it is means tested.
Hb can be anything from a small amount to the full amount, most people do not get the full amount, even the unemployed.

My dh has been made redundant but we are a £100 short of the full rent, which we must find every month-not easy on jsa

minouminou you well could be right.

Which is why it's important to make a fuss about the idea of putting families on the streets, not just "wait and see" what the full proposals contain.