if you voted for the Tories, you should feel personally responsible when you see homeless people on the streets ...

[aufaniae]

...once their policies start to bite.

They want to removing housing benefit for under 25s, many of whom have children. Just one of their policies which will drive people into homelessness.

I thought this was meant to be a civilised country. If the safety net is removed, many people including children will fall through it, some of them ending up on the streets.

How can anyone support that?

Seeing as most people have to get into serious debt to get a house, you could logically say that only those who can afford to pay cash for houses should see themselves as financially secure enough to have children.

Would you agree, london and outraged?

What is 'airy fairy' about saying rents are too high? It's the absolute truth. And it's why there is such a problem with the housing benefit bill - because working people's wages are not sufficient to pay their rent. If the govt really wanted to do something about that, they could re-introduce rent controls and rent capping. Plenty of other countries do it, and it works just fine. That would be a sure-fire way of cutting the housing benefit bill. But they aren't doing it. I wonder why.

Exactly Tall, what do these posters think i'm now to do with my children, give them up?
I love my children they have been born and are already here on earth.

Exactly wall they are not doing this and will not do this so you give me the alternative!

Or are you still convinced im filthy rich and should be doling out my millions to all and sundry?

How about job creation to get people off welfare?

Where are the plans to get the economy back on track?

How does making children homeless help boost the economy? (Answer, it doesn't)

Borrowing is going up, slashing the welfare bill isn't getting us out of deficit, we're currently going further into it, can't you see that?

Fairyjen.

I don't think the cost of housing is too high for working families with children because they get housing benefit to compensate for the high prices.

Of course I don't think it's working people's fault, but I do think that people have known for a long time what the housing market is like, and this should have made them think about whether or not they can really afford to have their second or third child. I don't think people who only earn MW can complain that the cost of housing is too high after they had children. The facts were available when they conceived.

FairyJen, I have said what I think needs to happen. Of course, it won't. But if you're looking for an answer to the problem of low wages and high housing costs, where the shortfall is met by the govt then there you have it - lower housing costs. Also, build more council houses, which are appreciating assets owned by the state, not financial burdens.

Seeing as most people have to get into serious debt to get a house, you could logically say that only those who can afford to pay cash for houses should see themselves as financially secure enough to have children.

No, I wouldn't agree. Obviously. People get given mortgages on the strength of their earning capacity, not on the amount of HB they are entitled too. The big difference is that people who get mortgages are taking the risk themselves, they aren't setting out in life expecting taxpayers to fund their choices.

I realise that in the past mortgages were given out too freely to people who were inevitably going to struggle to pay them back, but I still have more respect for people that took a risk than people who put their name on the council house list and then had children.

many people will never earn more than the minimum wage, even more people will never be without top ups from tax credits, childcare vouchers, or now UC should all these people never have children?

outraged my dc were not concieved on mw though and even if they were why shouldn't mw earners not have a family when nearly all the jobs that are semi-skilled are mv.

mw

My personal opinion is that if you are never going to be in a position to earn more than NMW, then no, you shouldn't be having children. And if you are going to, then limit it to one.

because they get housing benefit to compensate for the high prices.

So you're ok with a £6bn a year housing benefit bill? I thought that the reason why this proposal has been put forward and that there were so many comments on it was because people think that paying all that housing benefit out is a problem. I actually happen to agree that it is a problem - especially given that this money doesn't actually go to benefit claimants - it just pays of BTL mortgages. But there is an easy way of tackling the problem - just refuse to let people have such high rents to pay. As I say, it happens in many other countries and it used to happen here. Rent control.

outraged So you respect people who get into debt, have a mortgage and then lose it but you do not support people that get off their bum everyday for their mw day job and pay rent-snobbery at it's best.

Fwiw you are highly unlikely to get a council home in my area as there aren't any that aren't already sold or taken up by the long-term unemployed.
I rent privately, we had no choice.

Where all these council house for mw earners because they certainly are not around here.

My person opinion is that people who put themselves in judgement as to whether or not others should have children are deluded and probably fascists as well.

Earlier I mentioned my sil who has been on the take all her life. Her dd who is 3 has a touch screen tv in her bedroom paid for by benefits how is that fair! She is under 25 so would lose her hb. Good! Might get her off her fat arse and into a job!

I respect people who make the effort for themselves and take a risk rather than going straight to claiming HB to pay their rent, yes.

I think most problems would be solved by the government dealing with the root of all this-High housing costs.
With high rents mw would be enough to live off.

They need to tackle housing agencies, build more council homes, tackle greedy landlords.
They should also limit the maximum allowed to charge for rent.

Oh no there's a three year-old with a posh telly somewhere! Quick, let's make tens of thousands of people homeless!

And i do see where you are coming from fairy in regards to those like your sil as one of my sils is the same.
She has four kids on benefits, neither her or her dp have ever worked, but picking on those that do work fulltime for mw is not on.

pumpkin you've got my vote. Where do I sign up?

So vast majority of shop workers, cleaners, bar and waitress staff, care workers etc should just never have children because they cant earn enough? thats ridiculous can you imagine the divide??. We had both our children in reciept of tax credits, both with dh working full time for more than minimum wage but we still require tax credits and if we had been in private sector housing rather than LA then likely would still require rent assistance too. Its very unlikely we will earn enough to pay our way without top ups as much as we would love too.

But do i think my sils children should suffer because of their laziness-No i don't they are children, my nieces don't deserve to go homeless or without food due to their parents.

wall congrats. You are officially the dumbest person I have spoken to on mn

So you're ok with a £6bn a year housing benefit bill?

No, not really, but I think it's a necessary evil at the moment. I think the housing benefit bill would be reduced if it didn't have to pay for so many children to be housed.

Of course the money goes to the people that claim it. The government doesn't just hand it over directly to people who have BTL mortgages. That argument is ridiculous and I can't understand why it gets used so often on MN. If the claimant wasn't being given the benefit, then it wouldn't go to the landlord. That landlords rent would be being paid out of someone's wages instead. In fact, that is how the majority of BTL LLs rent is paid, because many BTL mortgages prevent the property being let to HB claimants.