if you voted for the Tories, you should feel personally responsible when you see homeless people on the streets ...

[aufaniae]

...once their policies start to bite.

They want to removing housing benefit for under 25s, many of whom have children. Just one of their policies which will drive people into homelessness.

I thought this was meant to be a civilised country. If the safety net is removed, many people including children will fall through it, some of them ending up on the streets.

How can anyone support that?

I agree with Theodorakis. There is still a massive safety net in this country, not least free health care. Any government would have to make cuts in this economy, or face financial collapse. I have no confidence in Labour to do a better job, they made a hash of it and made the country incredibly vulnerable by encouraging the banking sector to grow too big too fast.

chandellina so you are comfortable with children being made homeless then?

(I note that no one has actually answered this question yet).

Pumpkin - as fairyjen said you hav rather provd my point. If you feel confident that you or dp will find work and you are doing all you can to assists in that then unemployment benefits would still be there to support you in the short term. However I don't think that once ou are working again you should get a long term subsidy for having a large family you can't afford.

Aa argh the point is sweetie you couldn't afford four kids BEfORE h was made redundant

Aufanie - the reason nobody is answering is because there is no evidence of it happening. I am happy to state that if being in a hostel counts as homeless which I believe I currently does, then yes I am happy o see homeless children.

Hmmmmmmm happy not the word, comfortable to use aufanies word

OP, YABU.

I don't hold Tory voters responsible for the shower currently in Govt.

I do hold people responsible for smugly saying "should have stopped at two" when people point out that children might go hungry. They are the Mae people o all past those if feeing with a sneering look and say "all your fault".

They forget that they are a product of the Welfare State...most will have been born in NHS hospitals for a start. As how many of the posters here came from families who did well buying their council house at a whacking great discount?

This current Govt won't be happy until people are starving, their policy if using ATOS is already leading to despair and anguish.
All the whole "Call me Dave" bangs on about the son he claimed DLA for. Of course he could afford NOT to claim .......but the again he claimed it as he was "entitled" to it (see the comparison there).

I hate the bastards and wouldn't piss on any of them if they were on fire. Just my opinion of course.

But why should the taxes be so high for us all if we can't claim anything back?
And why is it of for us to claim jsa but not tax credits?

Why should the extremely rich be allowed a family but others are not?
I shall now be hiding this thread before someone mentions "workhouses"

I have worked with families in hostels londonone, on the whole these are not adequate and families do very poorly health wise and every other way. Then the children grow up.......poor health, poorly educated (try studying if you are all in one room) and ill equipped to cope with life.

...are there no workhouses?

The people who pay the highest taxes get the least back pumpkin. The chances are if you get tax credits you receive far more from the state than you put in. If that is your view then really you should be saving your pity for the top 20% or so who pay tens of thousands more in than they get ak.

As how many of the posters here came from families who did well buying their council house at a whacking great discount?

No, my mum was a responsible parent and when my dad lost his job in the 70s, she got of her backside and worked to pay the mortgage (in a fish and chip shop, despite having worked in a bank before I was born,) as did my granny before her when my grandad buggered off to the caribbean for a few years and left her with my mum and uncle.

I think women, especially, are doing themsleves no favours with the old 'my job is to be at home with my children' broken record. No, dear, your job is not to rely on anyone else to feed or house them.

Everyone is allowed a family pumpkin, just ont expect he State to pay for them.

But why should the taxes be so high for us all if we can't claim anything back?

I actually think that is the most breathtakingly stupid thing I have read in all my years on mumsnet. Bloody Hell.

london, just to clarify, the following are the effects of homelessness (to include b&Bs etc) on children.

You are comfortable with government policy causing more of this?

The impact of homelessness on children

A study undertaken in Birmingham found that 40 per cent of the homeless children studied were still suffering mental and developmental problems one year after being rehoused.

Effects on health

• Poor housing conditions increase the risk of severe ill-health or disability by up to 25 per cent during childhood and early adulthood.
• Children in bad housing are almost twice as likely to suffer from poor health as other children.

Effects on education

• Two thirds of respondents to a Shelter survey among homeless households living in temporary accommodation said their children had problems at school.
• Children living in bad housing are nearly twice as likely as other children to leave school without any GCSEs.

Effects on emotional well-being

• Homeless children never know where they will be moved to next and many develop anxiety, depression and behavioural problems along the way. Children living in cramped accommodation can experience hyperactivity, aggression, bedwetting, soiling and disturbed sleep patterns.

• Nearly half of respondents to a Shelter survey on temporary accommodation described their children as ?often unhappy or depressed?.

• Mental health problems such as anxiety and depression are three times as common among homeless children who have lived in temporary accommodation for more than a year.

• Homeless children have six times as many speech and stammering problems compared with non-homeless children.

Effects on life chances

• Evidence suggests that homeless children tend to have lower academic achievements which can increase the likelihood of insecure or low-paid jobs or unemployment in the future.

• Long-term health problems affect employment opportunities later in life.

• With all these obstacles pitted against them during their formative years, children growing up in bad housing often spend the rest of their lives struggling to catch up. Evidence also suggests that those who suffer bad housing run an increased risk of homelessness in adulthood.

I repeat auf, it's the parent's job to make sure a child is not in that position in the first place.

So who do the frig do we vote for at the next election?

The previous Labour Government brought the country to it's knees, the Tories have gone back on their word and the Lib Dems have proven themselves to be weak and incompetent.

I read the first five times! Government policy doesn't cause any of those things, parental actions may.

The most damaged children I work with are almost exclusively damaged as a result of their own parents actions

I frankly doubt you work with disadvantaged children, londonone. Your utter ignorance of the factors which produce disadvantage wouldn't last a day if you did.

A number of Tory types on mn start claiming to 'work with the poor' , I've noticed. Highly suspicious.

So if your Tory you can't work with the poor? Seriously?

I would post what I do but I don't wish to be outed. I am very good at my job and very well liked by the families I work with. It is actually possible to have empathy for people and have an intellectual issue with systems and principals. It is a shame some of you can't grasp that. However I do see children being left in hideous abusive situations because the SW who is charged with protecting the children is overly concerned with meeting the needs of the adult and showing inappropriate levels of empathy.