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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Really don't know what to think - death, abuse, family!!

56 replies

Hollyhock82 · 09/10/2012 19:48

Namechanged (you'll see why), I'll try and keep this short and sweet and really didn't know where to post this but feel I need some perspective, and that perspective would be better from people outside this situation who I don't have to see every day! Please be sensitive with this though, it is a really difficult subject - but I felt I was being a fraud puting it in Relationships and felt it was too important to call it 'Chat'.

Here goes.... my grandfather was a serial, long term sexual abuser who abused me and other family members. He abused me over a period of 3 years as a child when I used to regularly stay with gp (3 times a week) as my father was a farmer and my mother did nightshifts. When all was revelaed and my DPs went to the police and court (he was convicted for 14 years) my grandmother swore she never knew it was happening. However still to this day i do not believe her, I believe he was a wife beater, an emotional abuser and she was terrified of him. Him going to prison was a huge relief for her and she turned her back on him. I cannot get over not believing her, she would get up early and knew the my Grandad would always want his 'special cuddles' with me in the morning (this was always when the abuse happened). She would never come up stairs and check on me, never call me down etc and every time I tried to get up early with her, she would send me back to bed and say I had to stay there till 7.30am. There was even one incident when she told me off for trying to hide away some knickers in my bag to take home which, after a particularly nasty incident were bloody, and she would wash them before I went home and told me I wasn't to tell my parents as they would be mad at me. I remember this clearly and it has stayed with me.

My Nan is lying in hospital this evening dying. She is unlikely to make it through the night. In the past 8 years I have seen her twice. I have always meant to go and see her more and try and put the past behind us and understand that she was just a very frightened victim herself. My father has tried to maintain a relationship with her but is abroad at the moment and extremely upset that he cannot be with her. My older siblings have gone to the hospital, but I have choosen not too. I feel like a fraud if I go, but then I keep thinking she is dying, surely now is the time for forgiveness. I don't know what I feel, I keep trying to work out if I am sad or feeling guilty and the only image that keeps coming to my mind is her telling me off for having dirty knickers. In many other ways in my early childhood she was a lovely nan.

I am so confused and trying to make sense of this, part of me thinks have I posted this in AIBU to get a tirade of abuse for being an awful grand-daughter as I almost feel I deserve that. I just cannot face it and cannot face dealing with all these thoughts shooting round my head.... Sad

OP posts:
McHappyPants2012 · 09/10/2012 20:26

Awwwww op.

Follow your heart, I know this isn't an easy decision for you pagwatch what a good reply

mustbetimetochange · 09/10/2012 20:29

Scr

mustbetimetochange · 09/10/2012 20:30

Scrolled back to Pags post - Pag - you are so understanding and compassionate - I wish I could be more like you.

lannyshrops · 09/10/2012 20:31

Oh holly, you poor thing,
Totally agree with viper.This is very, very hard but I would advise you to think about you.
The key thing I would think about is how you will feel in the future, will you regret not going to see her? and I would say dont let any any fears about the rections of others etc cloud any decision.
If she is in hospital, you could call the ward and speak to the nurse looking after her. If you are worried about other family members being there she could manage a time when they are not there so you can visit for a moment of two.
I am a nurse and have done this type of thing on many occasions. We dont ask, we know that there are complex family dynamics and only want what is best for our patient. We will also look after you if you are upset. If you are anywhere near Shropshire I will gladly support you. Just ask

Good luck with your decision sweetheart xxx

maddening · 09/10/2012 20:32

so so sorry.

can you forgive her or allow some sense of closure?if other relatives could clear out for 5mins to avoid confrontation possibly go to the hospital as pp says and if you feel up to it see her? you could actually tell her you forgive her which would acknowledge what happened but possibly add some closure for you? or could possibly be quite healing ?

absolutely don't go if you aren't ready - there is no obligation just as she was your nan. you can say goodbye in your own way -it is not necessary to visit a person on their deathbed - it doesn't mean their passing means any less for you - in fact it is probably more poignant to you and her husband's victims than them

Pagwatch · 09/10/2012 20:35

That's kind Mustbetimetochange,but it's just how I felt. Hollyhock82 may ferl very differently.
It took me years to figure out how heartbroken I was that no one would ever hold me and say sorry about what happened to me. But that's what happens to so many of us I think. We think we have put what happened in the sensible part of our brain but part of us still remains childlike about it.
The fact that people who love me will never be kind to me about this still makes me weep.

Pagwatch · 09/10/2012 20:39

Sorry. Blush

The important thing is how you feel hollyhock.
Just remember that there is no perfect decision to make. It is likely that you will feel such mixed emotions that, stay or go, you will have mixed reactions.
You are astonishingly brave trying to reach a 'best' decision. Just do what feels closest to the right thing for you and forgive yourself for everything else.

Good luck to you.

doinmummy · 09/10/2012 20:40

I personally would go. Actually seeing her as a wizened old woman may trigger something for you, maybe pity , maybe anger. You could just whisper your anger / pity to her. Not very well explained. I'm sorry you have been through much pain. X

lovebunny · 09/10/2012 20:40

o p, are you able to be alone for a while? 30 minutes to an hour? if so... get a pile of cushions. call it nan. tell nan everything. what happened, how it has hurt you throughout your life and how it affects you tonight. beat hell out of nan (that's why she's made of cushions). or, possibly, of your grandfather, then, cry.

and when you stop, you'll know whether you want to go to see your or not.

dr irene kassorla wrote it up. i've used it. it works.

if you decide not to go to the hospital, and your nan passes away, you can do the same thing later. just because people are dead doesn't mean you can't put them straight on a thing or two.

perfumedlife · 09/10/2012 20:42

That's exactly how I see it Pagwatch, and if me holding you and apologising for other's crimes would ease your pain, I would do it in a heartbeat. And yet, the one person who should say sorry just won't or now, can't.

You are spot on, why should op make it easier any longer? She ought never to have made it easy ever. It's a two fold attack and, for her hopes of recovery I think the time to be counted is now, even if that simply means doing nothing to keep the facade.

perfumedlife · 09/10/2012 20:44

I didn't mean op that you ought never to have made it easy, just that you should never have been put in that awful position Blush

Original poster
Hollyhock82 · 09/10/2012 20:49

Thank you all for such kind and honest responses.

Pagwatch I think you have it spot on. I suppose in truth in my heart I have no intention of going to the hospital. I feel it would bring up more anger, and then I just feel so guilty about this response, as this isn't the way it is supposed to be with your grandparents. My friends have lost their grandparents and they feel grief and sadness, but smile at memories, I feel bitter that my grandfather died without me ever having to make him see what he had done but then see that i was stronger and had risen above his abuse. My nan will die without ever saying sorry or admiting her part - in her eyes it was always my fault for not telling anyone. I was 6 years old when this started, I tried to get help from her and the rejection in many ways made me feel no one would believe me - she re-iterated what my grandfather told me, that I was bad and it was my fault! Sorry my anger seems to be coming out now!!

I really would also like to say (it seems important to me you all know this) that aside from this I have a really wonderful life, a close relationship with my parents, an absolutely wonderful DH, a beautiful DS and another dc on the way. When we disclosed the abuse my parents did everything in their power to support and protect me and my sisters, they never knew before. I never have let and never will let the past dominate my life now. saying that though I just feel like I have just had one hell of a slap round the face from the past tonight!

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 09/10/2012 20:53

I would do what you want to do. However, I agree with what Pagwatch says. You have absolutely no obligation whatsoever to go to the hospital.

lannyshrops · 09/10/2012 20:55

Total respect to you. x

Pagwatch · 09/10/2012 20:55

I am pleased that you have found some sense of what you want to do.

I hear what you say about the rest of your family. I understand why that is important Smile

Fwiw I agree with you. However frightened she was, however cowered by your grandfather, she has chosen never to be kind to you through all these years. that was a choice she made every single day. Can you think of a six year old girl enduring that shame and abuse and believe for a moment that you would take that wrong to your death without ever having tried to apologise or beg forgiveness.

waltermittymissus · 09/10/2012 20:58

and then I just feel so guilty about this response, as this isn't the way it is supposed to be with your grandparents

No it isn't the way it's supposed to be with your grandparents. Because, grandparents are supposed to love and respect you. Care for you and protect you. And she failed you. She knowingly failed you.

You shouldn't feel this way because they shouldn't have done that to you. The fault is her's. (about you not going to the hospital I mean). You owe her nothing OP.

Just because she's dying doesn't mean she didn't let you down in the worst way.

If you want to go, go. But you don't have to. Hugs to you.

DeadQODy · 09/10/2012 21:00

Very hard. My friend had a similar experience, her gran walked into the room once and said "oh for goodness sake, leave her alone"

And that was it.

She feels more anger as she's got older, her gran died fairly suddenly about 10yrs ago but my friend never actually discussed the abuse with her family at all, she never told them as her grandad died when she was still young. Very confused emotions about it all.

Follow your heart, feel no guilt, you were the innocent and needed protecting

alcibiades · 09/10/2012 21:04

x-posted, because I can't type fast enough. But I'll post this anyway:

I also think that Pagwatch's post is worth re-reading, and then re-reading again. I know that many people who haven't experienced abuse or toxicity within the family might find what she's written rather harsh, but some of us, especially mustbetimetochange, do understand how conflicting the emotions are at times like this, between the so-called "right" thing to do for the dying person, and that being the wrong thing for the victim.

There's the hope or fantasy that someone on their death bed will do the right thing and say sorry, but the sad fact is that this grandmother has had plenty of years to do just that, but hasn't. OK, that might have been incredibly difficult for her to do, but if she had given even the slightest hint to the OP that she regretted her involvement, the OP wouldn't now feel what she is feeling.

Adding: OP, you have done incredibly well and I'm very glad you had such supportive parents.

zinaida · 09/10/2012 21:08

Nothing useful to add, but I feel for you OP and agree with what Pagwatch and waltermitty say. You shouldn't feel guilty, whatever happens.

MikeOxard · 09/10/2012 21:22

No way I would go, and don't feel bad. I agree with everything pagwatch and mustbetimetochange have said. Massive hugs to you and congratulations on your pregnancy. x

mustbetimetochange · 09/10/2012 21:30

Hollyhock82

You cannot forgive someone who has never asked for forgiveness.

You don't feel the same way as your friends about your grand parents - because they weren't like your friends grand parents - they were different - he abused, she stood by.

Congratulations and it comforts me to know you live a happy life - thank you xx

justmyview · 09/10/2012 22:26

I agree with others that your view of your grandparents is based on what they did (and did not do) to you. Maybe you will feel some sense of closure when your grandmother dies.

Pleased to hear that others in the family have been supportive

saintlyjimjams · 09/10/2012 22:33

Even if she was abused herself you are still allowed to feel angry with her for failing to protect you. What Pagwatch says makes a lot of sense.

CagneyNLacey · 09/10/2012 22:36

God op, you were just a little girl and she let you down terribly. She was complicit in the awful things that happened to you. Don't go if you don't want to. It sounds like she sacrificed you to make things easier for herself. In her own way she was a monster too and doesn't deserve your forgiveness.

justmyview · 13/10/2012 11:29

How are you feeling now OP?

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