to be fed up of George sodding Osbourne and his Knobbish Ideas

[avivabeaver]

The economy is proving harder to fix than he first thought

Solution- suggest cutting £10bn from the benefits budget and "limit the number of children people can claim for". So- are you supposed to choose your 2 favourite and just feed them then? Or what?

outraged prior to having a family we earned 60k a year. I was more than happy to help the needy!
Since having children we are a one wage family and struggle, when I can return to work it will be good times again and I am more than happy to pay taxes to help the needy. Its swings and roundabouts you just never know when you will need the help yourself.

I will try again having pulled my head out from my arse!

Neo-liberalism and free market economics, globalisation and the deregulation and disempowerment of labour (workers) over the last 30 years following thatcher and Regan, led to increased productivity and profits for business and a greater deficit and borrowing for states and individuals.

global corporations are able to defer and avoid taxes
workers now pay far less as an overall percentage of the total tax because PAYE workers wages have stagnated, that is why the top 10% of waged workers bemoan the fact that they pay something like 60% of all tax collected.
Globalisation leads to great stress on government borrowing to pay for infrastructure....look at how much China has spent on water, roads, rail, airports just to keep businesses flowing in to exploit their cheap labour........in 30 years they too can expect to see a huge government deficit.
There is an ever greater deficit and debt problem because of increased welfare needs and the fact that governments are both subsidising business profits and giving tax credits. If governments fail to meet these welfare costs this will eventually impact upon guess who? The capitalist because there will be no demand in the economy.

THAT is why we have huge levels of capital accumulation (50 trillion $ this year which has no where to invest, imagine having all that money and nothing you can actually do with it) sat alongside huge government debt.

It isn't feckless breeders that are the problem. Way back in the late 1800's there was an assumption that capitalists would always pay a living wage, just enough for the workers to subsist and recreate themselves (we need new life...new workers) never did anyone imagine that the capitalist would actually rob the worker of his subsistence, prevent him from recreating himself and expect the government to pick up the tab.

Unfettered capitalism CREATES the need for welfare.

My head isn't up my arse, and we pay significant amounts of tax, but you know what, I am pleased to help others in our society who need it. Not tired here.

When it stops being about should I will give up and pass away; I have no intention of that.

Come armageddon I will be the one with the placard saying 'protect the vulnerable'

I am proud of that fact. I like it about myself. It will not change now, I am no easily converted 20 year old. I am highly educated, specialist almost-40-year-old with a strong sense of what I believe: and I believe that where the Government see a starting point for cuts, I see untouchable.

Future candidates programme in 2013 anyone? Far easier to start from within I guess.

We also pay tax; and Dh is a small business owner. Well I am too but every time I try and do anything another child gets a disability and I have to put it on hold again: probably says a lot about my attitude long term though.

I want my taxes to help the vulnerable and not pay for silly expenses claims or bus passes or massive compensation payments for First as Robert Peston was saying today could run into hundreds of millions- minimum 40 mill but First hope for more than double apparently.

Heck, for a decent welfare state that catches the vulnerable instead of driving them to suicide or horrible appeals, I will pay more tax. At the moment though reality is that if I paid more in it would go to the priveledged; so I chuck food into food banks instead, far more effective.

Monkeys we earned £60k too.

And now are on a single income, like you.

We'll get back up my dear, oh yes we will! And we will have learned and developed from everything we've been through.

And now I am going to go make notes on experience and empathy as it's a natural extension of my research into empathy and autism; you never know when you might get funded!

Head not up arse here either.

Apparently 'middle class', and also an employed taxpayer receiving child benefit.

It also seems I am open-minded enough to see beyond my own life.

peachy when you have earned lots then a little you really appreciate the huge divide in class!
Like I said we should never snort at the poorer as one day it could be us!
& yes as soon as I am able I can't wait to earn again and have a nice big income :)

The rich don't need to spend more than they already spend Charley. Therefore they won't. £ 40,000 is a lot of pin money wouldn't you say!

Yy Knotty, people on the left are not directed by avarice but concerned about others too and see the bigger picture.

MiniTheMinx

Yy Knotty, people on the left are not directed by avarice but concerned about others too and see the bigger picture.

I disagree. You see today's picture - the "spend money now" picture. You don't look at what the effect of that will be in 20 or 30 years' time, or even if it will be affordable in 5 years' time. What matters to you is the appearance of having done a 'good thing'.

The 5% charley, where will the top rate tax payers spend the 40.000, in view of the fact that it is just a mere 5% of their income, an income that is already huge and meets every conceivable need. Will they spend getting their hair done to within an inch of the scalps, how often can they paint their walls, how many boats can one person sail, is it possible to stand on two golf courses at the very same time? trickle down economics doesn't work that is why we already have a huge CAPITAL ABSORPTION problem.

Flatpack, I don't believe in increasing government spending neither am I particularly generous as an individual, I'm certainly not a pussy cat. The system is flawed, it will renew itself at the expense of the working class, it will flounder on until all four wheels fall off. It will be good while it works, it will create wonderful buildings and technology and then we will realise that it was just a stage in our history. One day someone will look back and say

"Mummy, what is money? why did children starve because their was no money, surely only people starve when their is no food!"

I agree mini the minx

The world can produce enough food to provide each person in it with two thousand seven hundred calories. There is something wrong with the way we organise ourselves as human beings when so many starve.

I am insulted at the comment that I and folk who think the same just want to give the appearance of having done a good thing. How dare you.

Thank you Frothy, I can just see future people looking back and thinking how cruel we were to starve others in our pursuit of wealth. It will be an odd concept indeed to think people fell for lack of small pieces of paper or numbers on screens.

Charley, there are only so many beds you can sleep in Charley, that is why we have a capital absorption problem. The rich do not buy things for the sake of buying, they buy what they need and the buy what they desire but ONLY up to a point.

In recent years companies and wealthy individuals stopped investing in the real economy and their core businesses, that is why we have derivatives markets. Well now we have derivatives of derivatives. I bet that coffee will increase in value, I spend my excess income in this way hoping to get a return. What has happened is that coffee has increased in value. However and this is the really crucial bit to understand........if my cleaner can not afford to buy coffee because I forgot to raise her wages in line with coffee prices.....the price of coffee will fall.

Flatpackhamster

What matters to you is the appearance of having done a 'good thing'

There is a couple in this village- free car, free petrol, free house, endless benefits and no good reason for not working. Then here are the rest of us paying for them......

Only bothered to read the first page and just want to point out that if you attempt to put a cap on the number of children a person can have or afford then look at the result!

China = baby girls left at the road side to die as unwanted.

India = children being blinded so they can beg

Ok so these are extreme examples but although having a large family is perceived as irresponsible, people will continue to have children regardless.

NEVER
Are you the woman that hounded us out of our last house because you didn't have a fucking clue about what went on behind closed doors. An unseen disability is just that.
Oh, and you're talking complete bollocks if you thing that the state provide free cars and free petrol, they don't.