to be fed up of George sodding Osbourne and his Knobbish Ideas

[avivabeaver]

The economy is proving harder to fix than he first thought

Solution- suggest cutting £10bn from the benefits budget and "limit the number of children people can claim for". So- are you supposed to choose your 2 favourite and just feed them then? Or what?

Oh jeez.

No. The pot is not unlimited. But you are spectacularly missing the point. What this govt are doing is exploiting 'austerity' to make cuts to social services which they are ideologically opposed to. They are going further than Thatcher ever dared to in the 80s. They do not want an NHS - they would privatise every part of it if they could. This govt is systematically removing safeguards for the most vulnerable sections of our society (poor, disabled, children) and doing it under the "all in this together" banner.

To fool a large number of people into thinking these cuts to welfare are not driven by ideology they have presented it firstly by a drip-drip mechanism of feeding stories to tabloid/right wing press about 'benefit scroungers', fake disabliity claimants etc (a tiny, tiny, tiny proportion of people in need) etc. Then by overtly presenting people on benefits as the same.

There are plenty of other budgets from which to make savings. What have they done recently? Remove 50% tax rate. Make vague promises while they did so that they'd "consider" a mansion tax (to appease the LibDems). As soon as they think we've forgotten, they abandon all pretence of doing so.

I was recently told by my Father that I should be made to stack shelves in Tesco's with my children. (He is hardline Tory btw and wasn't joking.)

Outraged - wrong. Plenty of poor people work. That's why there are in-work benefits, such as housing benefits. And plenty of rich people don't. Osborne is cutting benefits for people in low paid work. So all this guff about their caring policies really being about encouraging people to get jobs is just so much hogwash - they are forcing people in low-paid work into even greater poverty.

Its not begrudging the poor. I don't get why its framed that way.

Its begrudging people who won't work or refuse to contribute long term to society.

Working people who can't afford school dinners and Sky resent people who cheerfully don't work and appear to have it all.

Getting 30000 grand a year for doing nothing might be your idea of hell, Bialy, but for most people it sounds great.

I happily begrudge the inherited rich too. Equal opportunities be-grudger.

Many, maybe most, buy to let landlords don't accept HB because its part of the mortgage deal. It puzzles me why BTL landlords get the blame for the housing benefit bill. They got off their arses and tried to do something to provide for their retirement. Why would anyone be pissed off at that? I really don't get it.

Housing benefit is paid to people who can't afford to house themselves, not to landlords.

'I'm bitter and jealous of the tax dodgers etc not people on benefits, but then I'm not so stupid as to believe what the media or politicians would have me believe. '

Absolutely agree.

I realise that plenty of poor people work, thanks. I don't think the majority of people have a problem with people who work but have to have top ups because of the NMW being shite. Not unless they have too many children that they can't provide for of course.

How many LLs are getting their mortgages paid by housing benefit, Quite a lot I would say.

Maybe, but that's down to the tenants, not the landlords.

Everyone should be very careful about all of this as the saying goes 'There for the grace of God'.....I have three Dc's more or less grown up now but all still at home. One of them disabled. Until earlier this year our household was typical working husband, DC working (part time). Disabled DC doing the best that they can etc nothing to rock the boat but then DH made redundant, DH now on the sick (medical problems since redundancy!! Huh!!). Trust me people, situations can change very very quickly - I know!! DH has worked for the past 30 years never been unemployed - this is all strange territory for us - he has always paid taxes and paid for everything and suddenly we need help....don't begrudge us the help after almost 30 years of paying for everything we have ever had......and be warned people things can change so fast and then your life is not your own!!

benefit fraud = £1 billion
unpaid tax = £140 billion

at equal opportunities begrudger.

But really, how do you know that people are refusing to contribute to society? Have you investigated the personal circumstances of everyone on benefits? You are making huge moral judgments based on nothing more than someone being unemployed - as if losing your job makes you a bad person.

My husband was made redundant 10 months ago, as it happened. Yesterday he helped to run the PTA treasure hunt, something that has involved months of planning. He dressed up, walked several kilometres, and made sure about 100 children had a great time. Do you think he's a drain on society? Today he was over at the hospital, seeing his elderly Mother who fell last week. He accompanied her on a visit by the occupational therapist, to see whether she could manage at home. He also applies for loads of jobs, and has had lots of interviews, and has got to the final two on several occasions.

At various points in the last 20 years, we've been very well off indeed and quite brassic and middling. I don't think we've been more virtuous when we've had high incomes or less virtuous when we've been poor.

What is an LL? Our mortgage is not being paid by housing benefit - we insured ours so that God forbid if things did go butts up the insurance company would make the payments!! We paid a lot of insurance but it is worth it!! So even though my DH is unemployed and now on the sick - we have private arrangements to pay the mortgage!!

Nobody does begrudge help to people in your situation bossbogle. Your family has paid in and has every right to take out when you need to.

The problem is with the healthy people that have never paid in. Or who have paid in next to nothing before leaving work to have multiple children they can't afford.

Landlord bossbogle.

boss - good for you. Sadly not everyone can afford that kind of insurance, or benefit from a policy (companies won't insure the self-employed, for instance).

Perhaps those who work and feel hard done by should be taking it up with the people who provide the wages as opposed to the people who manage to get sky on their meager benefit allowance. Though I suppose picking on those weaker than yourself is a lot easier:

outraged - you do understand that sometimes people fall on hard times after they have had children? You can be doing fine, but then shit happens.

edam totally agree, not all of us are scroungers!!

Not all of the unpaid tax is down to rich people. Plenty of it is down to regular middle incomers who pay, or work cash in hand.

And even when it is, at least they earned their money.

Plenty of people drawing state pension know who never put in or who are taking out WAY more than they ever put in by living longer lives.

Shall we make some cuts there, too?

This thread is so sad :( Children will suffer - in the case of families workless for generations, like their parents suffered before them. Posters saying make sensible choices, work hard etc don't you get it? We're not all the same. Kids are brought up with completely different value systems, examples, opportunities etc etc. A kid brought up in a house with no books, non working, possibly addict or eratic parents etc etc probably won't know what sensible choices are and so the cycle goes on. Even those who do know what sensible choices are may not have the abilities, life skills or support to make those choices work. We are not all starting from a level playing field. Less money for these families will surely just mean the opportunities are lessened and a child has less chance to break the cycle. It seems to me like divide and rule, let's deflect the economy's problems on to the poor, yes they are to blame the feckless lot. I can't deny that there will be some people who think having a baby is a good idea to get more state income (I expect it's usually ends up a false economy) but I can't believe that this is not just a small minority. We are allowing the Government to use said few as an excuse for not helping many. "people need to take more personal responsibility for themselves and their children" what if they can't, don't know how or won't? What happens to the children then? do they have to beg on the streets?

Outragedatfeddoes
Please fuck off back to trot back under the rickety rackety bridge and return to the Daily Fail forums where you belong...

Your comment last is disgusting.

'I begrudge the healthy but out of work because they are doing nothing, I don't begrudge the rich who do work, because, err, they work!'

The very phrase "the taxpayer" sends massive alarm bells ringing for me. So children, pensioners, disabled people, carers, and all those people who through no fault of their own cannot get a job should have no right to be represented or cared for?

£30k to house, feed, clothe and care for a family of eight? No, I do not envy that and I think that anyone decent who digs a little deeper into those figures would think the same.

You're right edam you can be doing fine and then shit happens and there is nothing you can do about it!! We're there right now and living it!!