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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to feel that most females have been the victim of some kind of sexual abuse?

638 replies

SoleSource · 05/10/2012 14:46

AIBU?

I was very nearly raped by a taxi driver. Also my cries of NO have been ignored on a couple of occasions.

OP posts:
SoleSource · 06/10/2012 12:18

Sorry to read of your experience piratecat. I believe all you say.

I wonder whether being victims of sexual assault actually does positively assist us when weighing up others?

OP posts:
ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmm · 06/10/2012 12:52

It does. When i go out i go out in a pack. We all watch out for each other.
There is always at least one lady that doesn't drink.
I had my drink spiked once, even though i followed all my rules about having bottles, not leaving them lying around, it turned out the guy that brought the drink right in front of my face had spiked it when i looked away for literally 2 seconds, then spent the rest of the night hovering by me ready for when it hit.
I have rescued other women i didn't even know when it was plainly obvious they had been spiked or drank too much to be aware of the man offering to take them home.

If i owned a club i would have someone on the door that didn't roll their eyes at 'pissed' women leaving with a sober man.. i would have them check, question, and pull the woman out of the situation if they thought something wasn't right.

Badgersnatch · 06/10/2012 13:07

YANBU. I had an older boyfiend when I was fifteen, I certainly wasn't ready for the kind of relationship that he expected and that I was drawn into. I've also had my drink spiked (lucky escape) and my sister was date-raped in her teens. We never reported any of this.

Sarraburd · 06/10/2012 13:45

This thread makes me so sad and angry, and yes also worried for DD/wanting to protect her.

A lot of the stories are similar to things that have happened to me/friends. Not raped myself, but definitely when younger several times pressured into sex when I didn't want to. Friends both date raped and by strangers. When my mum was traveling in Iran a guy drugged her and tried to rape her even though my farther was with her. Luckily they managed to escape. Lots of flashings etc - agree back then flashing/men wanking definitely seen as saddo to be ignored/laughed at rather than reported.

YANBU, but I so wish you were.

BegoniaBampot · 06/10/2012 13:58

Is is a hard one to admit. Over 20 yrs ago when I was a teenager I was in a nightclub in Spain with my friend. One British girl who was off her face on drink or drugs stripped off to her knickers and started dancing, she was rubbing herself against some random guy who was pushing her off in disgust. We all just danced away from her, TBH we were pissed off at her antics and the fact she was British and we already had a crap reputation with the locals. Her friends just got fed up after trying to get her off the dance floor and left her to it. Group of local lads just went over and picked her up and walked out of the club with her literally tossed over their shoulders the - bouncers, no-one did anything. I still feel shame and horror thinking what happened to that girl. Someone should have done something, no matter how she was acting.

MrsToddsShortcut · 06/10/2012 14:07

Sexually abused by dad's colleague when I was 5
Brother tried to rape me when I was 11
Groped by man when on family holiday when I was 13
Ex-boyfriend refused to stop during sex when it hurt and carried on regardless
Sexually assaulted by a friends ex-boyfriend when I was 24

None of it reported. i suspect because I wasn't believed as a very young child, I kind of ended up thinking that there was no point or that it was 'normal' Sad

Have found the last week exceptionally triggering actually, as well as feeling beyond furious at the wilful ignorance displayed elsewhere on the internet about this stuff.

Natnat29 · 06/10/2012 14:08

Very sad and distrubing thread. I have had some bad experiences but not compared to other posters. The weird thing is I hadn't thought/or spoke about them in at least 10 years.
When I was about 18 I was waking to a friends house- busy street, middle of a sunny afternoon was stopped my a lad prob the same age I was 18ish, normal looking guy asking me the time making small talk- then I realised he was flashing me and touching himself, tried to get Past him and ran off. Another time I had my drink spiked in a club luckily my friends got me in a taxi and bk home they thought I'd had one too many until the next day when we realised what had happened- I sure it was an ex's friend and should have reported it but I never did I hope he never did it to anyone else.

JustPoodling · 06/10/2012 14:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheBigJessie · 06/10/2012 14:44

How to avoid sexual abuse:

Firstly, before conception, the female/male should only select which family to be born into after CRB checks and exhaustive psychological reports on each potential family member and all their friends.

Next, during physical childhood, the individual should avoiding being a child emotionally, and somehow magic up the life experience and knowledge of a seasoned fifty-year-old.

Next, she or he should commit to a life of religious seclusion. If you avoid people entirely, you should avoid meeting the subset of people who are abusive.

Easy, eh?

TheBigJessie · 06/10/2012 14:47

Quick note: the above is NOT blaming victims. I am trying to point out the absurdity of blaming victims.

ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmm · 06/10/2012 15:10

This was shared with me this morning. I hope it helps some of you

A survivors words...

As a kid growing up it wasn't the best
Being put through pain was the biggest test
Wishing for a hero that never showed their face
Trying to be brave trying to win the race

A savior, a guide, please someone help me
Life seemed so dull, endless, no hope could i see
A child, a woman, screaming through the night
But then came the guidance, a savior the light.

The years fly by so fast and wild
The guilt the anger the pain still there but mild
We've dealt with the shit and a hell of a lot more
A woman a lady i have now become mature

So through that pain,through all the tears,
A gentle word spoken relieves those fears
A bad man taken away for good,
I can sleep at night like others should

Although the memories will remain, still fresh and raw
I am a woman, a fighter, and not scared of you now, like you are the law
That predator beat me and i vowed never again he would
Putting your pen to the register each week just like you should

May hell be uncomfortable like the way you made me feel
And i hope it hurts no relief no cure for you to steel
The pain you gave to me and others will return upon you
May the pain you caused follow into your next life too
May my life continue on holding my head up so high
You have not defeat me, you never will even till the day i die

Knowing you did wrong an adult to a child!
Your life should be far from mild
A tattoo on your head there should be
A sign a warning for all to see
A monster walking amongst our young
Free to roam which is so wrong

Please don't rest in piece, don't ever rest at all
I will fight you and others i am stronger and will not fall!
I'm alive, a fighter, a survivor and a mum
My children will come first, b safe and looked after that's second to none!

flippinada · 06/10/2012 15:38

I like that Jessie very good.

Pretty much the only way to guarantee avoidance of abusive types ime.

NoillyPrat · 06/10/2012 16:01

Thanks for sharing that ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmm :)

mirry2 · 06/10/2012 16:45

These experiences sicken me but it's made me think about why I've never felt comfortable with men flirting with me. I've had so many bad experiences, going back to my very early childhood that I avoided engaging with anyone who chatted me up or who I thought fancied me, unless I already knew him as a friend. I got lots of attention from men when I was younger and now sometimes regret my behaviour when I talk to friends who had a high old time with lots of boyfriends and regulalry went out 'on the pull'

BratinghamPalace · 06/10/2012 16:52

Fuckadoodle, you did not ATTRACT them because of your vulnerablility. They SEARCH for that. This is a subtle but very important difference for you to understand and accept. You had no complicity whatsoever. You or anyone for that matter is allowed to be vulnerable.
Ladies my heart is breaking. I have three dds. I was groped in a club once when 20. I am am 45 now and can remember it as if it happened yesterday. By groped I mean a finger was ramed up my bottom with an incredible force And until now, reading this, I thought it was my fault for wearing that dress!

AnastasiaSteele · 06/10/2012 17:17

solesource they were actually reasonable with me but nothing could be done, I had a description and that was that. So it got reported but stopped there. I didnt feel like I was being OTT by reporting it, he must have been about 20 so if he was doing that at that age, I thought he would only go further along the continuum of sexual offending so to speak. But I think a lot of people do just think its funny.

Thinking about the seriousness of the incident, I did feel violated but I have to admit my colleague trying it on probably felt like more of a violation because of the trust and the intrusion on my work life. The flasher scared me more though and I felt less in control and more vulnerable in that situation.

I wonder however, if that colleague had tried it on 10 years ago in my first job what would have happened, I think the power differential would be greater and I would have felt under more pressure to give in to him if you see what I mean.

ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmm · 06/10/2012 18:08

Palace.. so sorry to hear that, same has happened here.. i too had a dress on, but i didn't feel guilty for wearing it, plenty of other men there treated me well and hugged me as a greeting without leaping on me and trying to poke and prod.
You actually feel afraid to have a go at them in case they hit you. Its obvious they have some kind of misguided feeling you will somehow find it enjoyable or something Hmm

One man i worked with once met me while i was out, and pulled my top so it exposed my breast. Cue him laughing and about 2.4 seconds of shock before he got punched in the face and kneed in the groin. I hope it was worth the response he got, a couple of second flash of boob. Then i got the bouncers to chuck him out.

The older we get the less tolerant of it we are.
The same goes for relationships.
I believe thats why these people prey on young ladies, because they know they will get away with it.. not because its acceptable or enjoyable, simply that the person would be afraid or shocked or just 'accept' it.
Its a shame really because if you report it in a nightclub most places chuck the guy out while giving him a good roughing up.

These days i would be more likely to demand that they held him outside while the police were called.

I'm seriously considering getting DD self defence classes.. and chaperoning her on nights out. Call me boring but the alternative..

ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmm · 06/10/2012 18:08

NP no problem hun i had it shared with me by a lovely lady earlier this afternoon, she said it was ok to share and she hoped it would help someone x

Youcanringmybell · 06/10/2012 18:18

I shall add to this horrendous list...my step father made me do things i didn't want to, made suggestive remarks in front of my mother. He got off on double entendre and commented about my breasts from the age of 11. My mother knew about some of the abuse but chose to ignore it. In fact, she grew to be jealous of the vile attention he showed me. She once touched me intimitely and told me it was to see if I had had a strip down wash, but it was very intimate. I remember as a 3 or 4 year old being held down, my mum and someone (maybe even a doctor) intimitely examining me. I have been flashed at, I have been groped.

I know my mum was attacked, my aunties husband raped a disabled child - abusive men are all around. Everywhere. If they do not abuse then they cheat on their wives or obsess about porn.

I believe a handful of men are keepers.

I have no idea why men are such monsters. But many of them are. Some people just do not see it. If you watch closely enough - it is plain for all to see.

BratinghamPalace · 06/10/2012 18:41

Go hmm, thank you. In the face of such appalling suffering on these pages mine is very minor indeed. I do think though that ALL the perpetrators of a small or huge violence against a child, woman or man NEVER have a misguided thought of "they will enjoy it". I think it is ALWAYS done to demean, humiliate, violate, dominate, abuse ect. I found it utterly tragic up thread when someone said that the best defense she had against it ever happening again was to never say no. I really worry for my children, all little girls. I am looking at them after reading this, all under 5 and fairly delighted with life. The thoughts of anyone touching them, or making them feel that way .......

greyshoes · 06/10/2012 18:50

I have been thinking about this subject lately too. It's also my belief that abuse and assault is the typical experience for women and girls. It makes me angry and depressed. The Jimmy Saville case brought up a lot of things for me, especially issues about women and girls not being heard or believed when they speak out about abuse.

These are my experiences:

age 10 I was pinned down and kissed / groped by two boys of my own age.
On another occasion they tried to take my pants off.

Age 12 on holiday with my school. The coach driver who accompanied us for the trip spoke several times to the girls about inappropriate sexual things, tried to grope us, tried to come into the shower when I was in there, and at the end of the holiday, kissed on the lips and hugged all the girls goodbye, while pressing his erection against us. This last was in front of all the teachers and our parents. None of us ever spoke to any adult about this. We girls spoke to one another about it wrt ways of helping each other avoid him and avoid further assaults by him. It chills me that we were scared of him, knew he was doing wrong, yet never once dreamt of asking an adult for help. I think we felt ashamed and that we would not be believed. Adults didn't believe the word of children against that of another adult, plus sex was shameful and it would have been extremely embarrassing to speak about.

I was flashed at a couple of times, in my young teens.

Age 15 I was on holiday with my parents and got absolutely blind drunk at a party. I was given lots of alcohol by my parents and other adults at the party. A 45 year old man at the party kissed and groped me, then took me into a bedroom and had sex with me. Afterwards another man of about 35 kissed and groped me and another friend of mine who was also 15 and drunk. There were plenty of adults around while all this was happening.

Age 16 I was kissed and groped by my boss while working in a restaurant. All of the (much older) male staff there would make sexual remarks to me (I was aged 15 - 16 while working there) and discuss explicit sexual matters in my presence.

I have been lucky that as an adult I have not experienced any non-consensual sexual experiences, only crap like having sexual remarks shouted at me. Last year I was smacked hard on the bum by a stranger out of the blue! This is quite trivial I know, but definitely upset me and I reported this - the first time I have ever reported any form of sexual assault. The police, not surprisingly, could not do anything about it.

Thank you to those who have shared experiences on this thread. It feels comforting to speak to people who understand, although obviously I regret each and every occasion that any of you were assaulted / abused.

Youcanringmybell · 06/10/2012 18:51

Bratingham - you were not groped. You were sexually assualted - seriously assualted. Terrible and like you say - humiliating for you. I feel terrible for everyone here that has had these things happen. It is sadly all around us...I suspect it has always been like that.

TheBigJessie · 06/10/2012 19:12

Something is wrong with our culture and with every culture in which these things happen. My two little boys have been having a cuddly-toys tea party, and rushing around with pretend cups of tea. All men were like this once. What happens/happened to them that they felt entitled to treat fellow human beings like objects?

SomersetONeil · 06/10/2012 19:41

God this thread is an eye-opener. I was all day to come on and say YABU, but of course, I've had all the low level stuff to me happen. Like so many others, I didn't really think it counted - just an accepted part of life. I'm amazed that there are women out there that have never been groped, felt up, leered at, wolf-whistled, had suggestive comments made, etc, etc...

I honestly think some men have no idea how threatening they can be. What, to them, is perhaps the cut and gib of teens/20s putting yourself out there, flirting, pulling (or trying to), etc, etc, is often really, really unwelcome and threatening for those on the receiving end. They have absolutely no idea how it feels to almost inevitably be the physically weaker one and just know inherently in yourself that if things were to get out of hand, you'd likely be over-powered.

It's not even like most situations get to this point. Low-level groping in a club is just a random guy chancing his arm. But for the physically weaker person it is - or easily can be - intimidating and scary. I honestly think that so many men have no idea of what that feels like, and how it pretty much always puts you on the back foot. They're just having a laugh, trying it on, it doesn't really mean anything, get over your self, it's no big deal, done by them and forgotten instantly. But for women who accept this as part and parcel of every day life - and when the attention is not invited and welcome - it is intimidating. And I'm 5'9".

I was walking home from town (broad daylight) once when coming in the opposite direction to me was a girl of about 14. Hanging around was about 3 or 4 boys (they were about the same age as her). As she walked past, they made all sorts of comments. Didn't physically touch her or actually threaten her, just these comments. I couldn't hear what they said - but I could feel the fear literally emanating off her. You could almost see her try to shrink herself to make herself smaller, invisible. I stayed and watched to make sure they didn't go after her. It was such a complete and utter non-event in the minds of those boys, but for her it was awful - and for me as nothing more than a mere witness, it was so tangible I'll probably never forget it.

I was groped in the street by a 10 year old boy in broad daylight aged about 25 or 26. I was shocked speechless at the brass neck of him. Although I was hardly scarred for life, it really shook me as it was quite aggressive and obviously done for laughs and - effectively - for me to be ridiculed. That 10 year old feral little shit probably forgot about it 5 mins later, but 12 years on I still remember it.

I also worked in a bar in the City for nearly two years. As a barmaid, you basically sign yourself up for it. You totally are fair game. I was touched incessantly - not always in a sexual way - often just a hand in the waist or arm, but of course much more as well. Felt up, propositioned. I was 24 and didn't even think to mind. I was a barmaid, what did I expect? And of course, the barmaid that reprimands every man who touches her isn't exactly going to be appreciated by management...!

So on reflection I have been very lucky - no rape, no abuse, just bog standard 'mild' harassment. I'm so sorry for what some of you have been through. :(

VeritableSmorgasbord · 06/10/2012 19:56

I've been thinking about this thread all day.
One thing it has brought home - I think this is important actually - is that I have been alone with a lot of men, as a child and as a woman, and they have behaved decently and well.
Certainly there are some men who never behave decently around women and girls, and I think it's unclear whether they are the majority or minority. I wish more decent men realised that.