to want to shout at some dog owners?

[ParadiseMoresThePity]

Disclaimer: I would never shout and I know that most dog owners are responsible, lovely reasonable people, this is not meant to tar them all with the same AIBU brush, honest guv'

My local park is meant to be a 'dogs on a lead only' park, there are meadows directly next to the park where most take their dogs for a run, but everytime we go there are always some dogs off their leads. A few months ago, my 2 year old was knocked over by a dog, it ran over to us and before I could pick her up it had jumped up at her. I think it was only jumping up, it wasn't aggressive or attacking, but she is little and it just bowled her over. She is now terrified of absolutely all dogs.

So, since then whenever we are at the park or on the beach or wherever, if a dog comes in our direction she looks panicked and I try to pick her up before the dog gets too close. I immediately have to start reassuring her that its ok.

Every time (with very few exceptions) the owners look offended, offended I've picked her up away from the dog and offended that I'm reassuring her.
They tend to then say, 'oh, its ok, he's very good with children' in either a defensive or cross tone, though today I got 'you don't need to pick her up and fuss you know, he's very good with kids' followed by lots of tutting.

I just want to scream back 'well she doesn't bloody know that does she?!'

Because if they were all good with kids then she wouldn't have been knocked over in the first place!!
How the hell should I know which dogs are good with kids, especially as they are bounding towards you and you have a screaming toddler at your heels.

Yes, I know I was in utter shock. I forgot she criticised us as well for Indulging him. He is geuinely terrified though and that day confirmed to me he wasn't attention seeking as he didn't even notice this scary woman slapping her hands together in his face as he was so fearful of the dogs!

Cute IMO dogs on a lead are totally different, if its on a lead its under control.

We did have a lovely couple with a teeny tiny puppy on a lead stop and say that if DD wanted to pet it she could, they could see she was scared and it would have been a nice chance for DD to get up close to a small dog, and it really was small. DD refused to go near it, so I went over to pet the puppy so DD could see me with it and that it was ok. So I know there are some lovely dog owners out there.

I just hate the ones that seem to think the phrase 'it's ok, he's good with kids' is some sort of exemption from the dogs on a lead rule and as soon as this phrase is uttered every stranger should welcome their damn dog with open arms.

YANBU, I had a scary experience with a couple of border collies trying to 'herd' me when I was little. One of them nipped me and then the owner told me it was my fault for acting frightened.

Even now I am terrified of larger dogs off the lead - especially border collies. I'm now planning to get my own dog so that I can overcome my fear and have some company during the day and a reason to go out for a walk while I'm working from home. However, I'll be getting a Basset hound, or some other very placid and docile breed!

But some children are not to be trusted with dogs, rather than vice-versa (DD, am looking at you!!). I quite like it when dog owners say "it's OK, s/he likes children", as DD likes to see them close-up but an-overly-worried dog and over-enthusiastic toddler seeems like a recipe for disaster. I do whip her out the way of passing dogs becuase I can't trust her not to "befreind" them as only 18-mnth-old knows how!!!

However, some people are ridiculous about thier dogs - nothing wrong with keeping scared children from getting more frightened of something.

Oh yes I know what you mean. My friend's DD had a lovely little Staffie pup jumping up all over her in a perfectly friendly way but it was hurting her. She was covered in scratches after :(, and the owner did that "it's just being friendly" thing. The motivation of the dog doesn't really matter does it if the child is being hurt or scared by it.

I do think it is worth getting children confident around dogs if you can because it is something they will have to deal with through life and if a dog is going to be dangerous it's most likely going to be dangerous around a child that shrieks and runs away.

You might find this helpful www.safetyarounddogs.org.uk/

YANBU if I see any child at all I always put my dog on a lead and stop and stand still until the child has passed (even get my dog to stand still if adults are passing) you never know who is afraid so why put the other person in a situation they feel uncomfortable with. I do ask parents if their child wants to stroke my dog, he is rather large so it can be good for children to see he is also soft and dopy

Ignorant dog owners give the rest of us a bad name

Bumperella That's it, the owners don't know what the children are like. Their dog might be good with children, but will it still be good if the child pulls it's tail?
How do they know the child will be kind to the dog?

i have a lovely chilled out lab, and if I see a scared child and he is not already on a lead i wil put him on one. i also offer to let the children look at him closer or stroke him. he is great because he is SO uninterested and totally ignores the child. it does help scared children because it is nice to be so close to a dog, that they are normally scared of, and can just look, or stroke etc.

Whogives When my DD gets to the point where she is ready, I'd love to meet an owner like you with a chilled out dog, she just isn't there yet

I used to have a Dobermann, and ran her off lead on some local fields. We did sometimes encounter children, and I would always put her back on the lead, it's just courtesy. I did used to tell mums that she was friendly and harmless to reassure them, just not in a 'what are you afraid of' way!

Welsh But I bet you said it with a smile, meant to reassure. That isn't the facial expression or the tone of voice that I get most of the time!

The problem is with dog owners saying their dog is friendly and harmless is that as a non dog owner you can't tell.

Being growled or snapped at might be just playing but it is still pretty intimidating. Unless your dog has impeccable manners off leash it should be on one.

And if you can't control your dog on a leash, you shouldn't be out with it.

(bitter)

Oh, and if your dog is 20 feet away from you on an extending leash, then it is not under your control.

(very bitter)

The thing I don't understand - and I'd be grateful if any dog owners could explain it - is this :- even if a dog is small and gentle and quiet and friendly and unthreatening, surely we can't be expected to be happy about dog slobber being licked all over our child's face? I wouldn't like it if a person just randomly licked my mouth and nose, so why is it OK when a dog does it? I can't bear it when dogs trot over and smear my toddler's face with huge globules of saliva!

Those are some awful experiences!

DH once was chased by 2 GSDs when he was a lad, and he was anxious about dogs until recently really.

I've grown up with them, and begged him for years for us to get one. He eventually relented and we ended up with a Jack Russel-cross who was the cleverest and bolshiest dog I've ever met in my life! He's not with us anymore, after a long bout of ill health, but we had him for 6 fabulous years, and as DH said, you couldn't help but like him. He was brilliant with our DS, who abused him shamelessly!

I don't know whether anyone has mentioned this, but do any of you have RL friends who have good, calm, steady dogs you could interact your children with? Please don't take this the wrong way - I know this could come across more than a little condescending! But can I share an experience with you?

I also have a Dal who is a child-magnet, and is thankfully very well behaved and calm around children. When Dennis, our JR-x was with us, I used to take them both on outings with our Sunday School children, even though there was a girl there who was terrified of dogs, to the point where she panicked at the sight of even my mum's ancient doddery old pooch who could barely shuffle round the garden.

Anyway, I digress. Before I took my boys anywhere near her, I talked her through some basic doggy-body-language, describing how to watch my dog's posture, tail and ears, so she could "read" my boys, and know when they were relaxed. She was 10 at the time, so was old enough to understand what I was describing to her. Also, I asked her permission before I even brought them on the outing.

Once she gave me permission to bring the dogs out of the car, the other kids immediately flocked round them (Ooh, Dalmatian!) and once the novelty had worn off, she would approach in her own time, and could be found sitting within a 3-foot radius of my boys by the end of the day (this was an achievement and a half for her, as she would climb her mum/step-dad/nearest object whenever she clocked a dog even on the other side of the road). That was 3-4 years ago, and by the end of last year, she was comfortable enough to pet them, on her own terms.

Also, she is now comfortable enough to be able to pass dogs on the street, although she does prefer them a little further away from her unless she knows them (understandable)

But basically, what I'm trying to say is, do you know someone whose dog you truly know is placid, and very easy-going, not excitable, who you could slowly introduce your DC to, on an occasional basis?

(again I'm sorry if it sounds patronising, I'm not trying to be, honest!)

PS I agree imagine!

I don't let my dog lick my own face or my DCs, let alone anyone else's!

JParkson A mum at toddler group has a lovely old spaniel who is lovely and very old and doesn't move much. When we go there, she always lets the dog go and sleep on their bed so DD doesn't see it.
I think that would be the best chance, but until she gets a little bit better, maybe when it isn't such a recent trauma, I don't want to risk it. If she freaks out then she might never be comfortable going to this friends house so don't want to risk it IYSWIM.

Agree absolutely that all it takes is the one thoughtless owner in the park one day to install years of dog-phobic issues. Exactly the same thing happened to DS2 when he was little - a dog knocked him over. And I had the same "he was only playing" reaction (the subtext was "what's your problem?") and I wanted to scream "if something almost twice the size of you, covered in fur, knocked you over, don't you think you'd react a bit?".

It has taken years and bloody years to get DS2 to even acknowledge that not all dogs are bad, all down to the one fuckwit in the park that day. Not helped by DS3 being bitten by a random dog, but that's a whole other story.

This topic really annoys me and I'm a dog lover, the dog should have been on a lead in a public place.You are right when you say some owners are offended by you sheilding your child, I have the same problem when a dog runs upto our lab, I automatically put his lead on for the simple reason he does not like every dog he meets.Now I think I'm being responsible and considerate but no this is seen as some insult to their dog.

The other day I was with my 2 year DS in a country park cafe when a little shit dog came jumping up at him.I picked my DS up and the owner eventually appeared and gave an explanation about how friendly and sociable her rodent was.Now my DS is very dog friendly but what if he was'nt, what if he was scared of dogs?.Surely a little tot has the right to not be bothered by a dog?.Thankfully we got got rid of it when I told the owner my little one liked to poke dogs eyes (which he doesn't before anyone bites!!!).

I also hate dog dirt all over the pavements but I can honestly say everyone I know with a dog picks up.It is only a small minority who give us dog owners a bad name.

That's it, the owners don't know what the children are like. Their dog might be good with children, but will it still be good if the child pulls it's tail?
How do they know the child will be kind to the dog?

I totally agree, Paradise.

Letting dogs charge at strangers is unfair on the dog as well as bloody rude to strangers. YANBU

I don't think you are BU to want to shout at idiot dog owners who have their dogs off leashes in a public park where they are forbidden.

I had the awful experience of trying to calm my 3yo DD when some f-ing Muppet threw the tennis balls for his two large dogs at my DD
cue two large dogs bounding 50 meters or so up to her and I'll never forget her face - she was, and is to this day absolutely petrified of dogs.

Needless to say I did let that Muppet have it, both barrels, and actually I found it very cathartic. So YABVU not to have done the same.

Dog owners, actung! Keep your dogs in your control on their leashes where they should be on the leashes, and we'll all rub along together just fine.

Hassled Yes, the subtext is always "what's your problem?" As if I'm being difficult for having a terrified toddler.

I know what you're saying

As mentioned, this girl even refused to go to my parents' house, with their clapped out mutt, when all he was capable of was shuffling and farting :o

Sounds like a plan to wait a little while, but I would suggest not to wait too long - I would worry that she'd set herself up in a habit of being fearful whenever she encounters any dog. IMO, I would try and socialise her ASAP with old and placid dogs, so she is reassured that not all dogs are 'bad'. :)

Especially if the dog has other children round - you may find that her seeing the dog interacting gently with/ignoring other children may help her with her fear - that's how the girl I know felt most comfortable, when other kids were with her.

Out of curiosity, how long ago did she get knocked over?

Oh yeah! Dobies can look really intimidating, but she was wet as a sponge, bless her, I just wanted them to know she wasn't a psycho dog. She was actually really scared of little yappertypedogs, would hide behind my legs. Didn't make other people's fear of an understandably scary seeming dog any less valid, though.

mumofthemonsters I suppose its just like teenager lads, most are lovely upstanding members of society but they still get branded as 'hoody youths' because of the actions of the few. I feel for responsible dog owners, I really do.

JParkson It was mid July that she was knocked over. We were both really shaken by it, I was fine at the time but once we were home and I had to tell DH about it I realised how shaken I was. For a few weeks she freaked out if we even walked past the park, she didn't even want to go to the park. She will now, with lots of gentle coaxing from me but she is still terrified of dogs, really scared. Poor thing.

Paradise

Can I apologise on behalf of dog owners, there is no excuse and I'm not surprised your DD is scared.

Also, you said this happens in an on lead area. Really annoys me when owners think the rules can't possibly apply to their furry baby!

We have two very big, very calm dogs and 2 DCs. DD (2) is now terrified of small dogs after being jumped on, knocked over and scratched by countless little dogs 'being friendly'.
An excited spaniel may be small and cute to its owner but to a toddler it's a very large animal.

I haven't said anything to these other owners yet as am not usually shouty either.
Am now getting to the stage where I might just train my giant boy to run over to these owners, jump up repeatedly till they fall over, scrabble at their clothes and skin with muddy paws and sharp claws, and lick the face off them for sheer love.

All the while standing over them saying, 'Oh, he just loves people who are patently terrified, how lovely that he wants to be your friend. Stop being so silly, he only wants to play.'

Standing on his hind legs he would be eyeball to eyeball with them, just as their dog is to our toddlers!

I squat down and put my arms around DD, holding her still, when I see overexcited dogs approaching now. She feels safe and I can then get between her and them before they upset her.
If they calm down I can then show her it's ok. She's getting a lot less scared and is starting to stand still if dogs run up to her.